Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I agree FF, closed loop Ap systems will concentrate contamination from the water source.
My water source is the tap traveling thru copper pipes, after proper degassing of course.
I haven't seen any AP and copper studies, but I have seen studies that fish and humans can be ill effected by copper overdoses. One even references fish as a source of copper for humans.
I'm not fishing for an arguement but believe that if the fish survive then it's a given that the levels of copper in the fish flesh will not harm humans. I may very well be wrong but have yet to see any warnings about eating fish with a high level of copper content, mecury yes but not copper. I figured most of us stay away from copper pipes because of fish health concerns.
Granted there are people who are more sensitive to copper because of illness or what have you. These, I would think are under a strick diet, as someone who is allegic to peanuts would avoid anything that contains them, they would avoid anything that had a copper content.
Still don't understand how the collector will disolve in AP water what am I missing?
More on the subject?
Next I guess would be to look at the dietary copper requirement and cross them with the copper content in fish and see if that shows anything.

Gotfish,,I'm watching all this because I had a similiar discussion a few months back.
And I just remembered,,in my tropical fresh water aquarium,I've had a large whale ornament made from brass,,,it's been in that tank with those same fish for well over 10 years.
Apparently another member had similiar thoughts and proceeded to use copper pipe,in a no-fish experiment,and apparently it was eaten away very quickly.

It's difficult to argue against people who have run their systems for years,,,but it can be fun

Some food contents.
Sorry if the format is not perfect but the info is there just the same.
Chappo is there a link to the disolved copper or discussion?



USDA Zinc to
Food Zinc-mg. Copper-mg Copper
Description /1000 Cal. /1000 Cal. Ratio

Alcoholic Beverage - Beer, Light 1.11 .86 1.29
Alcoholic Beverage - Beer, Regular .48 .22 2.18
Alcoholic Beverage - Dist.,All,90 proof .18 .08 2.25
Alcoholic Beverage - Wine,Desert,Dry .54 .35 1.54
Alcoholic Beverage - Wine,Desert,Sweet .44 .29 1.52
Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00 5.20 5.77
Apple juice,canned/bottled,unsweetened,w/o + ascorbic acid .60 .47 1.28
Apple, raw, with skin .74 .70 1.06
Apple, raw, without skin .63 .54 1.17
Apricots, dried, sulfured, uncooked 1.67 1.43 1.17
Apricots, raw - - - - 5.29 1.82 2.91
Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 4.79 3.73
Avocados, California 2.40 1.50 1.60
Avocados, Florida 3.75 2.22 1.69
Bananas, raw - - - - - - 1.74 1.13 1.54
Barley, pearled, raw 6.05 1.19 5.08
Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 10.23 2.93 3.49
Beans, white, mature seeds, canned 9.54 1.98 4.82
Beef, ground, 85% lean meat, pataty, cooked, broiled 25.16 .34 74.00
Beef, variety meats and by-products,liver,pan-fried 25.16 20.63 1.22
Beets, cooked, boiled, drained 8.00 1.68 4.76
Broccoli, raw 14.00 1.60 8.75
Bulgar, cooked - - - - - - - 6.89 .91 7.57
Bulgar, dry 5.64 .98 5.76
Butter, with or without salt .10 .02 5.00
Cabbage, raw - - - - - 7.22 .89 8.11
Cabbage, red, raw 7.90 3.58 2.21
Cabbage, savoy, raw 10.00 2.26 4.42
Carambola,(starfruit), raw - - - - - 3.33 3.61 .92
Carrot, raw 4.68 1.01 .4.63.
Carrots, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 6.71 2.99 2.24
Celery, raw 8.33 2.33 3.58
Cereals ready-to-eat, KELLOGG'S Wheat Bran Flakes 40.98 1.58 25.94
Cereals, oats, quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o salt 7.93 .89 8.91
Cheese, cheddar 7.72 .08 96.50
Cheese, cottage, creamed,large or small curd 3.61 .27 13.37
Cheese, cottage, nonfat, uncreamed, , large or small curd 5.53 .33 16.76
Cheese, swiss 10.37 .08 129.63
Chicken, broilers/fryers, drum stick meat only, roasted 18.42 1.00 18.42
Chick peas (garbanzo beans, bengal g)mature seeds,canned 8.88 1.46 6.08
Chives, raw 20.00 5.00 4.00
Clam, mixed species, raw 18.41 4.63 3.98
Coffee, brewed, prepared with tap water 10.00 3.00 3.33
Coffee, instant,regular,prepared with tap water 12.50 3.25 3.85
Corn, sweet, yellow, boiled, drained, without salt 4.46 .49 9.10
Corn, sweet,yellow,frozen,cut off cob,boiled,drained 5.04 .47 10.72
Couscous, cooked 2.33 .36 6.47
Couscous, dry 2.22 .67 3.31
Cowpeas (Blackeyes), immature seeds boiled,drained,w/o 10.63 1.37 7.76
Crab, blue, cooked, moist heat 50.52 6.30 8.01
Cream, fluid, heavy whipping .58 .02 29.00
Cucumber, peeled, raw 15.00 2.43 6.17
Cucumber, with peel, raw - - - - - 15.38 2.54 6.06
Dates, domestic, natural and dry 1.06 1.05 1.01
Egg, white, raw, fresh 0.00 .12 -----
Egg, whole, cooked, fried - - - - 5.98 .08 74.75
Egg, whole, cooked, hard-boiled 6.79 .09 75.44
Egg, whole, cooked, poached 7.33 .09 81.44
Egg, whole, cooked, scrambled - - - - - 6.04 .09 67.11
Egg, whole, raw, fresh 7.33 .09 81.44
Eggplant, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt - - 5.36 3.82 1.40
Endive, raw 44.44 5.56 7.99
Figs, dried, uncooked 1.96 1.23 1.59
Flounder and sole, dry heat - - - - 5.45 .22 24.77
Garlic, raw 7.50 2.25 3.33
Grape juice, canned/bottled,unsweetened w/o added vit. C .84 .46 1.83
Grapefruit juice, canned, unsweetened 2.34 1.00 2.34
Grapefruit, raw, pink and red, all areas - - 2.43 1.46 1.66
Grapefruit, raw, white, all areas 2.05 1.51 1.36
Grapes, red/green (European type, i.e.Thompson seedless) .83 1.25 .66
Ham, pork, cured, extra lean and regular, canned, roasted 13.87 .46 30.15
Ham, sliced, regular (approx. 11% fat) 11.75 .55 21.36
Ham, sliced, extra lean, (approx. 5% fat) 1.22 .54 2.26
Herring, Atlantic, pickled - - - - 2.02 .40 5.05
Honey, strained or extracted .78 .13 6.00
Ice creams, chocolate 2.66 .62 4.29
Ice creams, vanilla - - - 3.46 .12 28.83
Lemon juice, raw 1.67 1.17 1.43
Lentils, mature seeds cooked,boiled w/o salt - - 10.91 2.16 5.05
Lettuce, cosor romaine, raw 17.50 2.63 6.65
Lettuce,iceberg, includes crisphead types, raw 17.14 2.14 8.01
Lettuce, looseleaf, raw 16.00 2.50 6.40
Lima beans, immature seed,frozen,boiled,drained,w/o salt 5.24 1.88 2.79
Lima beans, immature seeds,frozen fordhook, boiled/dr. w/o 4.41 .55 8.02
Lima beans, large, mature seeds, canned 8.26 2.28 3.62
Lima beans, large, mature seeds, boiled, w/o salt 8.29 2.05 4.04
Lobster, northern, cooked, moist heat 29.88 19.87 1.50
Macaroni, cooked, enriched 3.76 .70 5.37
Mangos, raw .65 1.70 .38
Melons, cantaloupe, raw - - - - - 4.64 1.20 3.87
Melons, honeydew, raw 2.00 1.67 1.20
Milk, chocolate, fluid, commercial 4.95 .78 6.35
Milk, nonfat, fluid, with added vitamin A, -free or skim 11.40 .31 36.77
Milk,reduced fat, fluid, 2% milkfat, with added vitamin A 7.79 .16 48.69
Miso 16.06 2.11 7.61
Molasses, blackstrap 4.26 8.68 .49
Muffins, corn, dry mix, prepared .20 .20 1.00
Muffins, oat bran - - - - - 6.82 1.22 5.59
Mushrooms, raw 28.33 19.11 ? 1.48
Mushrooms, shiitake, cooked, without salt 24.13 3.74 6.45
Nuts, almonds - - - 5.80 1.92 3.02
Nuts, cashew nuts, oil roasted, salt added 9.21 3.51 2.61
Nuts, coconut meat, raw 3.14 1.23 2.55
Nuts, hazelnuts or filberts - - - - 3.88 2.75 1.41
Nuts, pecans 6.53 1.73 3.77
Nuts, pistachio nuts, dry roasted with salt added 4.04 2.34 1.73
Nuts, walnuts, english 4.76 2.43 1.96
Oat bran, raw 12.64 1.64 7.71
Oats, cereal, .,quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o salt 7.93 .89 8.91
Oil, olive, salad or cooking .08 .00 -----
Oil, soybean, salad or cooking (hydrogenated) & cottonseed .00 .00 -----
Oil, vegetable corn, salad or cooking .00 .00 -----
Okra, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 17.25 2.71 6.37
Olives, ripe, canned (small-extra large) - - 2.00 2.20 .91
Onions, raw 4.92 1.57 3.13
Onions, spring or scallions (includes tops & bulb), raw 12.00 2.40 5.00
Orange juice, raw 1.07 .97 1.10
Oranges, raw, all commercial varieties 1.53 .95 1.61
Oyster, eastern, cooked, breaded and fried - - - 443.47 21.86 20.29
Oyster, eastern, wild, raw 1338.25 65.61 20.40
Palm, hearts, canned 42.22 4.89 8.63
Papayas, raw - - - - - - 1.82 .40 4.55
Parsley, raw 27.50 3.75 7.33
Parsnips, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 3.25 1.71 1.90
Peaches, canned, heavy syrup pack solids and liquid 1.24 .69 1.80
Peaches, raw 3.29 1.59 2.07
Peanut butter, smooth style, with salt 4.95 .23 21.52
Peanuts, all types, oil-roasted, with salt - - - 11.39 2.24 5.08
Pears, raw 2.04 1.92 1.06
Peas,edible-podded, cooked, boiled, drained w/o salt 8.81 1.84 4.79
Peppers, sweet, green, raw 4.00 2.20 1.82
Plums, raw 1.94 .78 2.49
Potato, baked, flesh and skin, without salt 3.88 1.27 3.06
Potatoes, boiled, cooked without skin, flesh, without salt 3.30 1.95 1.69
Potatoes, hashed brown, home-prepared 1.44 .87 1.66
Potatoes, mashed, home-prepared, whole milk added 3.77 1.81 2.08
Potatoes, scalloped, home-prepared with butter 4.64 1.89 2.46
Prunes, dried, uncooked 2.20 1.81 1.22
Pumpkin, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 11.43 4.55 2.51
Radishes, raw - - - 10.00 2.00 5.00
Raisins, seedless .90 1.03 .87
Raspberries, raw - - - - - - 9.50 1.52 6.25
Rice, brown, long-grain, cooked 5.69 .90 6.32
Rice, white, long-grain, parboiled, enriched, prepared 2.70 .83 3.25
Salmon, chinook, smoked 2.60 1.96 1.33
Salmon, rockeye, cooked, dry heat 2.34 .31 7.55
Sardine, Atlantic, canned in oil,drained,with bone 6.27 .89 7.04
Seaweed, kelp, raw 30.00 3.25 9.23
Shallots, raw 5.71 1.29 4.43
Shrimp, mixed species, canned - - - 10.49 2.50 4.20
Shrimp, mixed species, breaded and fried 5.68 1.13 5.03
Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt - - 33.41 7.63 4.38
Spinach, raw 22.86 5.57 4.10
Squash, summer, all varieties, raw 12.61 3.74 3.37
Squash, winter, all varieties, cooked, baked without salt 6.63 2.44 2.72
Strawberries, raw 4.40 1.62 2.72
Sugars, brown .83 .83 1.00
Sunflower seed kernels, dry roasted, with salt added 8.06 2.79 2.89
Syrups, chocolate, fudge-type 1.94 .82 2.37
Syrups, corn, light - - - - - -0.00 .04 -----
Syrups, maple 15.96 .29 55.03
Tangerines, (mandarin oranges), raw 5.41 .65 8.32
Tea,instant, sugar,lemon,w/o ascorbic acid,powder,prepared .91 .24 3.79
Tea, instant, unsweetened, powder, prepared 35.00 9.50 3.68
Tomatoes, red, ripe, raw, year round average 4.21 3.50 1.20
Tuna, light, canned in water, drained solids - - - 4.58 .36 12.72
Turkey, all classes, dark meat, cooked, roasted 23.89 .85 28.11
Turkey, all classes, light meat, cooked, roasted 12.95 .27 47.96
Turnip greens, cooked, boiled, drained without salt - - 6.90 12.55 .55
Turnips, cooked, boiled,drained without salt 9.39 3.03 3.10
Vegetable juice cocktail, canned 10.43 9.00 1.16
Vinegar, cider - - - - - .00 3.00 -----
Watermelon, raw 2.24 1.00 2.24
Wheat Bran Flakes, ready-to-eat, KELLOGG'S Complete 40.98 1.58 25.94
Wheat flour, whole-grain 8.65 1.13 7.65
Wheat germ 44.11 1.63 27.06
Yogurt, frozen, chocolate, soft-serve - - - 3.04 .82 3.71
Yogurt, frozen, vanilla, soft serve 2.63 .25 10.52
Yogurt, fruit, low fat, 10 grams protein per 8 ounce 7.24 .78 9.28
Yogurt, plain, low fat, 12 grams protein per 8 ounce 14.13 .21 67.29
Yogurt, plain, skim milk, 13 grams protein per 8 ounce 17.32 .27 64.15
Yogurt, plain, whole milk, 8 grams protein per 8 ounce 9.71 .14 69.36
>

Oysters have a lot of zinc in them!

And it's THAT Zinc that gives THAT effect on men I love oysters ,probably explains why I've had so many kids:),,,nahh that's better explained by...>>>

Its not like you did not already know the end result of banging your head against the wall is it?
Cant find the link and its bed time for bonzo, be well all.

The mith about oysters in all bull one night i had a dozen oysters and only 3 worked boom boom

The problem may be when every oyster works .... overtime ....

Ron

It wouldn't be such a problem except I believe it's illegal to sell your kids on Ebay.

I think the question should be what is the solubility of copper under the conditions we operate under. We should consider pH, temperature and dissolved O2 at Atm pressure. Electric utilities have used copper heat exchangers for years to condense steam. The cooling water is usually river water in our old plants. But on the condenser side the water is at high temp and pressure. (No O2 though) and is cycled. I used to do Atomic Absorption (AA) for analysis and found very little in the condensate even in a 40 year old unit. I don't remember the values and I don't have the old chem books (CRC) propose a value. We had very very few tube failures. (But I do know our Nuclear plant had to change out all the copper in the unit to satisfy the Nuclear Reg Committee.)

Many discussions offered relate to copper sulfate which is a salt and more soluble than metal.

Just for interest... member "Jim" ran a test soaking some copper pipe in 60ltr of water with a pH 7.3



viewtopic.php?p=69316#p69316


After 2 weeks he found the level to be 1mg/L => 1ppm.....

Koi are generally thought to be a pretty tough fish....



Yes I know many of the references related to copper sulphate.... but in many previous links I have posted, including one from Stuart Rowland from the Grafton Research Centre ... the Silver Perch guru....

We have discussed the copper "cation"..... and the results are totally consistant...

Copper is considered a "heavy" metal... as indicated in one of the links.... as is mercury, zinc etc

The accumulation mechanism of mercury is the same as that for any other heavy metal... ie copper......

All of that food copper is measured in milligrams....

Well just try it I suppose

At least when you kill your fish, we will have a thread to point other people to when they say copper is ok.

Yep and if you DON't Kill the fish I can say "told ya so to Rupert and OBO ..... and if you DO kill the fish I can say " TOLD you to listen to Rupert and OBO . I LOVE no lose situations

LOL, a win win sit you ation.
Add water hardness to the mix in how the fix react to copper or vice versa.
Yes I am doing it and we shall finally put this to rest, possibly, maybe, perhaps.
Whos going to do aluminum(sp)?