Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

i was reading through an article the other day and it struck a cord. (see sig)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/weeki ... ref=slogin

looking for your thoughts.

We are going to see a lot of things that haven't been done before. Look at "green energy"- it was something that got knocked around for years because no one took it seriously but now it's the latest, greatest buzz word. A lot of people didn't believe in global warming, that is until a huge chunk of ice broke off in the Antartic. There is a new word added to the dictionary that means you buy all of your food within a 100 mile radius of your home. Look at this forum, how many new members have joined recently? How many more are "guests"? Our world is changing, has been for a long time, but now it's undeniable.

As far as food waste goes, there will always be some waste- it's unavoidable but if you give people options to recycle it, they will- as long as it's convenient for them. Japan, as a nation of individuals, probably has the most support for recycling but it started with the local government making it easier with the proper receptacles. I don't think there is anything that is not used. We need that kind of infrastructure here and a better attitude, from the government on down- eliminating Bush is a good start but don't get me started on politics!!!!!!!!

It the citizens of the country that are the problem not its leaders. We let the politicians get away with murder. As long as we have our american idol, a beer, anti depressants, money in out pocket, kids on ritalin so they don bother us, food on the fast food counter, and the latest greatest stuff we dont really care what is going on.. There is no excuse for the american people allowing the government to do what it does. We People with the rights of kings roll over on our bellies in submission and wait for the government to scratch it and beg for regulations and licenses and other rights to do what we already have the right to do without permission. Truth is, we the people neither do what is right or really hold the politicians to do what is right. Im not talking about voting, Im talking about prosecuting, fining, and jailing ALL of them for violating the law in a country where there is a rule of law. We have not the intestinal fortitude so we just say shame on them, lets vote for another crooked person next time. Never mind that they broke the law... This goes all the way down to the local level where cops run light, speed, and murder people with immunity. When was the last time a citizen tracked down the offending office and field a information on him to have him/her answer before a court for breaking the law Ofcourse thats hard to do when the people running the system hired the judges they wanted....

Oh well, cycle on them all...

Dan, you're talking about personal responsibility and standards. I'm still of two minds on whether those are quickly dying things in America or if there is a large segment that simply doesn't care to be vocal about it anymore.

I hope it is the latter, and that these people are simply making the choice to improve the lives of their own families and loved ones while saying the rest of the world can go hang.

Okay, the question is out there. As an American citizen, how do you propose that we change the "system"? Do we run for election and try to change it with a grass roots movement? Revolution? Move away and start our own colony? After all that is what founded our country in the first place, we got sick of old King George and persecution of our freedoms. Looks like we're in the same boat again- our domestic e-mails are screened- including these, our international phone calls are tapped- without warrants, our borders are closed- without proper documentation, the blood of our newborn children are kept on file- without parental consent, government wins over religion and personal rights. We have lost a lot of personal freedoms already and we will lose more. Are you aware that ALL of our congressmen are not only millonaires, but some are also multi-billonaires? That the average stock portfolio is around 6% but congressmen average around 30%? I won't even bother going into the topic of lobbyists and who gives donations. Thoughout the span of human history, I cannot think of one benign government and ours is no different. Our founding fathers had a dream of something better than what they created, that's why they left the constitution open to expand it with amendents but it has been corrupted by corporations and greed.

I think that our government is no longer operating under the authority of its founding documents where you can not charge a person for failure to do something, ie, failure to wear a seat belt and morals and religion have no authority which is exactly opposite what was intended. Further, courts do not operate within the 3 jurisdictions that the constitution allows. Its all color of law. We have forgotten that God created man, man created constitution and constitution created government. No matter what your religion you should be free to follow it without restriction that violates your conscience; to the point that you harm another's person or property. But then perhaps, thats the problem, we are not a moral or religious people anymore... We are materialist.

Cause and effect.................one causes the other. Narcissism more than anything is the problem withe the o'l US of A. Look at Hollywood, our sitcoms REALITY TV, give me a break, where is the reality in Big Brother House and Survivor, they are more a exercise in glorifying the worst in human behaviour, hence narcissism than they are anything else. I am ashamed of the American Experience of late. I'm a gen-x'er but I loathe what my peers stand for. We waste more every year than some nations will ever have.................... Republican or Democrat, hah, dont make a bit of difference, both part of the problem and neither truly concerned with what matters................the Constitution. You know what Thomas Jefferson said about the tree of liberty..................

TX

I remember reading that the money spent in the USA on gasoline for lawn-mowing would feed all the starving in Afica,,, makes you ponder.

It is heartening to see our US cousins endulging in the same kind of "reflection" that we here in Australia were forced to recently prior to our election....

IMHO... you must change your current government/leaders immediately and overwealmingly....

But then you must work, as we should do also, to change the whole basic premise and pervasive "nastiness" of thought that has arisen over the last decade....

Sadly as DanD says due to our own abdication of OUR responsibilities as citizens.... WE are responsible for the maintenance of democracy and freedom of our homelands... WE ALONE...

Not the ideologs or even worse the corporate lobbiests and "neo-fascist" industry and banking CEO's and stakeholders.... they have fed us a diet of mindless pulp and false dreams to disquise the insidiousness of their plans and global domination....

It was once said the "religion is the opiate of the masses"..... sadly today that has been replaced by 300 channels of mindless crap, a delusion of wealth based upon credit but not backed by physical production.... a deliberate indoctrination of "stock market" stock mangers, global free market hypnosis.... sold to the masses as un-neccessary and obscene over consumption and projected as a "required" lifestyle....

A believe that consumption driven exponential growth is both sustainable and obtainable.... IT IS NOT.... somebody has to pay in the end...

And the ultimate payment is extracted by "neo-colonialism", invasion, force and coersion... usually smeared with the snake-oil of "national interest", "patriotism" or "defence of democracy"....

We have all been conned... and sadly, meekly surrendered our rights as citizens and our rights to democracy through inaction....

Yep... become/stay informed with the politics of power, influence and economics.... AND ACT whenever and where-ever you can...

Write letters to the editor, your local coucils, local senators and other elected officials.... express you views and vocie your demands.... demand that those seeking election attend PUBLIC meetings, not hide behind tailored television advertisments, media propoganda campaigns designed to tailor public opinion....

Vote with your feet on the streets..... and most importantly VOTE.....

Vested interest will fight hard to defend the philosophies they have entrenched within the system to defend their positions of priveledge... it will not be an easy fight... and it will be a long fight.... at least a decade or two.... and will demand levels of personal sacrifice that may even reach extreme levels and require extreme committment and possibly even extreme action....

Democracy must be re-taken by the people.... by force if it comes to that point.... and it may well..... for sadly even the military has become a tool of those who would opprese us rather than a defender of the people...

The greatest threat to democracy does not not come from those outside our respective borders... but from those within our own boardrooms and corridors of power....

It will be a bitter and heart-wrenching day when we see a re-enactment of the Kent State University massacre and the slaughter of young educated minds, by those entrusted to protect both the people and democracy... but sadly I predict it will occur... and probably in the not so distant future

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." - Abraham Lincoln

If we have not learned anything from the days of the '60s and '70s... it's is because we have chosen to do so for our own selfish self centered satisfaction and lifestyles....

WE HAVE FAILED OUR CHILDREN.

...we have failed our children!
one line will do it!

My second "batch/spawning" aren't old enough for me to have failed them "yet".
My 3 month old daughter still thinks Dad is the best thing EVER,let's not let her know the truth just yet,,,ok?

I think that the schools are the way to start changes. My grandchildren were very quick to tell me that they learned about Earth Day and want to help. We started worm farms this last month in Nebraska. Eating healthy has spread to the cafeteria and because of rising costs, school administrators are analyzing what foods go to waste and they are removing them from the menu. Children bug their parents to quit smoking and complain loudly when people litter.

Our government has the same problems we had in the 1800's and 1900's. Why should it change today? Self-interests are still directing policy. Teddy Roosevelt had challenges with immigration in the early 1900's. Industry polluted and used up human capital to hire the cheapest labor possible. Workers seldom had enough to make ends meet. And that was before outsourcing.

We have artificially kept the prices of everything low without charging for environmental costs. We have overused credit both as individuals and as a nation. We are a consumer nation. IMHO this down turn in the economy may correct this. It will be painful.

BTW, I live in Palm Beach County where the hanging chads cause the vote problems (and our current administration.) So I went on step further when I moved here. I work during the elections the make certain in at least one voting site that the voting is correct. Unfortunately it didn't help in the primaries this year. We voted but our votes don't count. Thank you Howard Dean!

I'm sorry but aren't the president hopefulls picked by the delegates and the superdelegates, regardless of the will of people? I also don't recall anyone voting on who gets to run for the president in the first place- you just get option number one (choice within the republican party) or option number two (choice within the democratic party). I know there have been a few independents that ran but I don't recall any of them becoming president. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

We, as massed orginized individuals, can break the power of corporations, without blood shed- but I'm not sure at what cost to us. We could stop spending for absolutely anything that was not necessary. GDP is 2/3rd's CONSUMER SPENDING and we are trained, almost at birth, to spend our money- especially women are targeted for fashion's sake (and I think women are almost as defined by their shopping as men are to their jobs). But what good would it do us if it lays off most of the working people or if the government bails the failing corporations out (Bear Stern's, for example) and tack it on to our taxes? Most of our retirement plans are tied to the stock market so how will you afford to retire (that is if you ever could), if the corporations fall and take your money with them? The government won't let corporations fall anyway because they generate a huge number of jobs and income is tied to their performance (through stocks) and the government doesn't regulate their growth to make it less of an impact to those who work/ invest in them- compare the different government treatment of a corporation (at risk assets tied only to corporation, bankruptcy chap. 11- take away employee retirement plans, government bailout, etc.) to a sole proprietor business (personal assets as well as business assets at risk, bankruptcy chapter 11- sell off all assets (personal and business)/ possible close of business, no government bailout. Where is the fairness?