Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Yep it definitely sounds like system design will need to be specifically targeted for the countries where they will be installed. The only really low tech thing I think would be needed for Qatar, sadly might not be easily acceptable to the people. That is humanure composting to reduce water usage and close the nutrient cycle, in turn improving the soils for dirt growing. It really sounds like such things are desperately needed there with the imminent water crisis. Major challenge is that most Industrial nations would rather flush away "waste" than have to deal with it directly to turn it into a resource.

I personally am probably more suited to the low tech, non-industrial team working around small villages.

Angie,
Likely if a system were to depend on human powered pumping (IE bucketing water or hand pumping) The system would likely need a large "header tank" or something that could be filled say once or twice a day and gravity feed the grow beds and so on. Expecting people to do it every hour or few hours would not work well. Most Agricultural societies are used to having to feed/water the animals once or twice a day so this is not unreasonable. Also, a rope pump or other mechanical pumping method could be linked to a windmill that would pump when wind is available and be manual if wind is not available.

On the low-tech side, if you are going with an urnal/diurnal pump cycle, your stocking density in the FT would have to be pretty low due to ammonia build-up between pumpings.

Tamo42,
Likely so but since there is a chance with such a system to perhaps use a pre-existing pond, one would still be improving the water quality from what it may have been in the past and thus allowing a greater fish density than it had before. Of course if the pump can be wind powered, then the had pumping would only be for really calm times anyway.

Heh, I guess it depends on your basis of comparison. Densities would certainly be higher than the local pond, but lower than in an optimized AP system.

My figuring is in some situations, (since we often don't get to have a perfect world) one must look for options that will work even if they may not be optimal. An Optimal system isn't much good if there is no power to make it run.

Then again, we might be able to come up with wind pumping that can make a system run quite well and give optimal densities.

Preliminary info on Iraq- this is a very rough sketch so some info may change.
Size of California and 2nd most unstable country in the world, after Sudan. High civil violence, problems with economy and infrastructure. Looting, sabotage and insurgent attacks common. Bechtel, ninth largerst corporation, that was awarded 99 major reconstruction projects, left in 2006 after losing 53 employees, most of them murdered. However, with recent increased security, displaced refugees, mostly middle class, are slowly returning to country. Oil economy but country is heavily in debt and recently restructured $20 million- remaining debt was forgiven. High unemployment; low quality of life (explained later).

System issues- Mainly desert topography with mountainous region to the North. Main exception are the two large rivers- the Eurphrates and the Tigris that run virtually through the middle of the country, creating a highly fertile area. These two rivers and well water are only water sources. Groundwater is deterorating because of excessive use in contrast to recharge. As I have a good understanding of water hydrology, this could be a permament issue due to compaction of the earth surrounding the aquafier. In delta area, marshes have mostly been drained and replaced with water canals for irrigation. The other issue is rising soil salinity- this could be one of two things, less water to remove surface salts or salt water table rising to replace freshwater table in wells. All basic amenities are limited, including sanitation and potable water. Electricity is sporadic and unreliable. All infrastructure in bad state- restarting most state owned factories meeting with difficulty, however, there are a few cement factories operational. Temperatures similar to Qatar.
Population does eat a considerable amount of fresh fish in diet.
World Bank has opened a branch in Bagdad and has financed 10 reconstruction projects worth $375 million.
In my opinion, this is the most difficult of the three locations and not only for it's danger factor. The large unused factories could be used for fish farms and food processing, with adjacent high tech greenhouses- as we still have issues with sand and summer heat. We must have steady electricity for both water pumping, possibly water treatment, cooling and ventilation and we are limited to locations near one of the rivers or in the delta area. Pretty much everything has to be imported into the country. If we can secure consistant electricity- either through passive solar or generators; a water treatment facility, if required- perhaps reverse osmosis?; assistance with high tech greenhouses and ensure the personal safety of our team, then this is doable. But that is a lot of ifs.
Both Qatar and Iraq have to be operated, on the same level as commercial enterprises, due to the addition of the greenhouses and the greater expenses involved. For me, the science part is easy and so are the fish. The only thing that I needed to learn on plants is nutrient dificiencies, otherwise I have that pretty much nailed too. Where my learning curve begins is in greenhouse management and believe me, it's steep. I have read several books on the subject but I still think it is one of those things that has to be practiced to be good at. We are going to need an expert in this field.

just in passing, we were watching a show on tv about some entrepreneurs donating to some African village.
One of the projects involved building a shop? Anyway, the farmers all jacked up when they discovered the plan was to build it out of locally (on-site) produced mudbricks. They wanted it built from "imported" concrete blocks.
These villagers seem to have been "trained" to expect aid/assistance to arrive in a big white box with a red cross on the side. They couldn't understand using local products for an aid project.
There was a lot of fast talking from the donors to get the locals to agree.

This attitude may cause some stumbling blocks (obviously not locally produced ) for any project that may happen with AP.

Jaymie, you've hit the nail on the head. I live in Africa and I can confirm that Africans want everything for nothing. It's a slow process but once you get them on your side and they realise that this isn't just a handout and some input from them is required, they're brilliant to work with, physically strong, enthusiastic, friendly and reliable.

Angie, thanks a stack for all of the input, it is highly appreciated. As far as Iraq is concerned, I for one have no intention of going there for the install. In all probability we will bring a team of Iraqi's here to build a system with us and then ship everything over to them to build themselves.

South Africa has just signed a very comprehensive trade agreement with Qatar and we will in future enjoy preferred status for projects like this.

Please keep the ideas flowing and follow my Tilapia Hatchery (low tech) thread as this model may work at least in the other African countries (probably not in the Gulf).

http://libdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_916.pdf

This is the WHO nutritional requirements. Basically, their criteria, for developing countries, is a total of 2681 calories per day, per person- of which vegetable sources supply 2344 and animal sources (meat, dairy, eggs, fish, etc.) supply 337 calories. The vegetable sources are further broke down in that roughly 50% are cereals (wheat, rice, etc.) so the other than grains, totals 1172 calories from fruits and vegetables.

Rather than type it all here ,, please take a look at my Moringa thread ,, VERY suitable for these conditions. People , fish , chicken , cow , pig , goat food. And yes we feed it to my Tilapia , cattle and chickens in Thailand

Is anyone available for a site inspection in Qatar? Just need a passport, we'll arrange air fares, accomodation and visas. I've been asked to go and have a look, but I'd like another (qualified)/independent opinion. We could inspect, collect information, take photos and then post to this forum for comments. I'm not sure when we'd be needed, but I've just been asked if I can go.

that will sort the men from the mice Sman Am watching this thread with interest, and wishing you participants the best of luck. I am sure you realise that if you pull this off, I am pretty sure it would be the first of its kind and an extremely monumentous achievement.

I'd be up for it

Correction: I *AM* up for it

Got 2 years left on my current passport

What sort of time would be spent up there Sman? I spent 6 months in the gulf during the start of the second iraq war, wouldnt mind going back for another look if I am qualified enough