Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I'm moving to the states...we don't pay 5.5% here...

Tim, is there much economy of scale with solar panels? ie does it get cheaper per watt if you put in 3kw rather than 100w?

Steem, with our current economic conditions. Our interest rates are very low. Now is a great time for a buyer.

Not sure if this is accurate but following site gives some idea of rates here in U.S.

http://www.mortgage101.com/Articles/Dai ... p?p=mtg101

Mike, I know little about solar but there are lots of websites out there. I would shop it around. Here is one I stumbled accross.
http://www.solarhome.org/solarhomekits.html

I think I am going to order one of these to try.

http://www.siliconsolar.com/solar-oxyge ... -16155.php

There is a company making plastic solar cells (no silicon) and the cost is about 3 cents per watt. However, their plant can not make enough to keep up with demand. They are building a new plant. So I hope in the near future I can place an order with them. I am on their mailing list to be notified when they come online; I forgot who it was so I am depending on that email notice I will post the info when/if I get it.

Hey, Dan, is that nanosolar you're talking about?
I've had my eye on them for a bit, too.

Yep, nano solar coupled with a way to change the lattice structure of plastics to make them conductive.

A cool video about how nanosolar works:
http://www.kqed.org/quest/television/view/399

Peoples,
Until I see a nanosolar factory powered entirely by nanosolar panels I'm calling BS - on cost, eMergy and materials.

You may want to take the first step on your own which is to reduce your power consumption. Replace incandesecnt lights with flouresence. Illiminate all phantom loads like led readouts on your microwave, tv stereo et all. These can run as much as 10kw a month. If you can replace your air conditioner with a evaporative cooler that will greatly reduce the size system. Eliminate the use of electricity for the hot water by installing hot water heating. Install solar home heating if possible. By reducing the load you reduce the number of P.V. panels, the size inverter and the size battery bank.

Paying finance fees for a system is a sure way to make it uneconomical. The only way I could justify a system is to layout cash up front, do the labor myself including product selection and design. Even then it only made sense with tax incentives. Buying second hand panels and stuff that was used rebuilt or on sales specials helps.
Now I run 3500 watts of solar PV with 1400 watts dedicated to grid tie. 1200 watts on a seperate system to charge batterys that power my well pump, circulating pump and new green house with AP. I have a third system of 565 watts that power my evaporative coolers and solar heat fans in the winter. The later also drives a small 750 watt inverter dedicated to run my 25 Cu. Ft. refregerator freezer. I use propane for cooking and hotwater and biodiesel to heat the house. Still my power bill runs $10 to $12 per month with a $6.50 meter charge and another $4.00 in state federal and local taxes.

Tim,
Yes, it is more expensive (in $/Watt) to install a small system than a larger one, but once past the 1KW size, the economies reduce somewhat.

I have recently purchased approx 1KWp of solar panels to add to my solar power system (48V, MPPT charger, 4.2KW inverter and one bank of second hand 550AH telecommunications batteries).

I was quoted $11/Wp in Perth but managed to contact people installing low cost grid tie, solar power systems, who managed to get the price to around $5.50 per Wp.

So my 990Wp cost me $5500, plus freight from Sydney.

I have been working on the mounting frame for 2 days and yesterday afternoon, my brother and I mounted the panels on the frame. Today, after visiting family and friends, I started connecting the panels into the charging system. Tomorrow I will complete the connections.

This will expand my system from 1500Wp to 2500Wp and will hopefully allow us to operate virtually independent of the grid, although with our small battery capacity, more than one cloudy day will mean selecting grid power for part of the time (to minimise discharging the battery below 50% of capacity - deeper discharge will cause accelerated battery degradation.)

Regards,
Tony

not a huge fan of turning things off at the wall to save on phantom loads.............by your 10kw(/h) per month figure it works out to a consistent load of 13watts..........seriously.

works out to be the same power as it takes to make a cup of tea per day............................yes, i worked it out (based on a 1200w kettle and 30 seconds to boil)


i'm all for the CF lights though......

i'm all for reasonable efforts. the school down the road has just installed 3 arc lights ( i assume to be 1KW each) to illuminate a gum tree infront of the office.................should have bought another one to light up the "water wise school" board. irony.

20K on batteries is probably right, hence why systems that feed back into the grid are better.
I setup a large solar installation here at work and large batteries are hellish expensive.

when your doing your calculations remeber to factor in inflation and estimated rises in power prices. the case for solar is getting better.... but it's still not there yet.

I am not a huge fan of the compact fluros myself...

1. They don't give out anywhere near the same light as Incandescent lighting or even LED lighting for that matter. They say a 15W CF is the same as a 70W
light globe which is rubbish. We have them installed in the bathrooms and in small background lights. We also have the hoop fluros above the kitchen and living area.
They are fine for general lighting bt are not enough to provide adequate reading or studying light.

2. Materials cost. These things contain plastics, metals, ceramics, glass and other chemicals... Compared to a normal light globe the materials that go into them are far greater.
Somehow, recently the prices of CF have plumeted now they are more popular and hey are now very comparable to incandescent globes. The problem is that a lot of cheap and
nasty brands are coming into this country which don't seem o be lasting anywhere near as long as they are claimed. We bought five CF from ikea about 6 years ago, for about $12 each
they were expensive back then. But they lasted a long time. We have replaced the CF in our lounge room 3 times in maybe 18 months, because they were cheap models...

3. The chemicals and recycling. CF like most fluros contain chemicals such as mercury and the compounds found in the electronic circuitry. These are now been thrown out at such an alarming rate.
Light globes could at least be recycled if someone wanted to... CF would be a night mare... Don't forget that the most common cause for failure in these things is the circuitry in the base of
the globes. I have had one die in a nice plume of smoke as (i assume) the capacitor boiled/fried. I read somewhere that on CF has enough mercury to contaminate 6,000 gallons of water.

4. Operating frequency... We may not notice it but they fluros are turning on and off at many times a second. There have been studies into the possible link between this flicker to
epilepsy and other seizure disorders...

I like to do my bit to reduce the mount of power we use... but at was cost to the environment later on? I say scrap CF and stick with LEDS... They are made from chemicals just as bad but in
MUCH smaller quantities and they last for a LOT longer.

Tim, do you have a link for the places to buy LED lights? I last looked about a year ago, and it still wasnt really viable.

I agree that cost is a current issue... http://www.todae.com.au/comersus2/store ... egory=1271

But people need to realize the LEDS produce very little heat, they don't need to warm up. They are an instant ON device. Plus if used correctly
they can last many years... The most common LEDS on the market are rated for 100,000 hours. The high wattage ones are a fair bit less though.
But even if you take 50,000 hours that is like leaving the light on 24/7 for over 5 and half years....

Ideally a house should utilize larger size fluorescent lighting (round or standard tube) for large areas and replace seldom used lights with CF (cupboards, bathrooms/toilets) and
any high use focused lights should be replaced with LED lighting. Eg, Reading Lights, downlights, fan lights, bedrooms, porchlights, outdoor lighting.

Incandescent lighting should only be used where large out door lighting is required such as flood lamps.