Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I think the point about system failure is a good one. Which is why for any system to be robust, there must be multiple ways forward. This applies to our situation, I think, as diversity of food production methods. AP may be a key component, but only a component.

I think this plays in AP's favor though as it is a very low labor intensity (per produce and per area) system, freeing up time for more traditional backup plans

And another thing (I know, I know)....

How about salt/brackish water AP for places where fresh water is hard to come by?

An interesting idea for sure. Not sure if I could ever break away - or if I would be worth much. My system is doing very well, but I really didn't do more than design it.

System failure is a very good point, you need to make the design as secure as possible and in remote areas, it make takes days, weeks, even possibily months to get replacement parts. There are areas so remote in Africa that the people who hand out food for the needy depend on locals with bicycles to deliver it because the infrastructure just isn't there for trucks to go overland all year long, if you can find the trucks to go in the first place. I suggest a one pump system, with hopefully a back up in place in case the main pump goes down and oversized piping for less maintenance. I also suggest a header pipe which delivers the same amount of water to each bed, even if you add additional beds later and a two tier grow bed system, where the first tier are traditional gravel beds for the majority of the bacteria colony and to clean fish effluents from the water. The second tier are deep water culture that then drain into the fish tank/ pond. If the pumps fail, the gravel beds will dry out but the deep water culture will still be alright so you won't lose the entire crop. For emergency use, they can be aerated with say a bicycle attached to a paddle wheel and if necessary, the people can bucket the fish water to the plants to keep the nutrients up until repairs can be made. Some plants will do better in one type of grow bed than the other but what works will have to be determined by the local diet and tested in the system. If cost and transportation are not an issue, use fiberglass growbeds and heavy duty pond liners as these will probably last the longest. For the rafts, I think I would use something stronger and more durable than the foam boards used by UVI, maybe some sort of rigid plastic that floats well, doesn't degrade in UV and is non-toxic, maybe larger versions of plastic cutting boards. For the grow cups, we need to see what is availabe locally- do they make their own pottery, have plastic bottles, even gourds- that will depend on availability of what is there in the location you're at but you'll want something common. For a plant nursery, maybe you could use the grow cups in the gravel beds for starting them, then transplant to the rafts. Just some ideas to throw out there.

Count me in Synapto.... great idea...

GREAT. I'd like to let the ideas flow without trying to address each point raised.

The way I see the task team working is that we each specialise, ie. you may be a Tilapia expert, or have organisational skills or know everything there is to know about water quality or vegetables and then you take responsibility for that aspect.

I am really feeling my way around thia idea at this stage, but when the quotes have to be presented and the orders are received, I'd like to at least have done some preparatory work.

Although a per-site system would probably be ideal, to sell the concept to aid-agencies and government departments, a repeatable design would be better, but once again, something that we would adapt to local conditions once a recce has been done.

Please keep the ideas/comments flowing.

Failures? mmm, I've failed dismally at growing tomatoes.

idea flowing...

what sort of materials would be available to construct GBs and FTs out of? I suppose some traditional ship building techniques could be used to make water-tight wooden structures.

manual/livestock power pumps?

Synapto

You may be interested in this http://backspace.com/notes/2003/08/gaviotas.php

Not just the pump but the other ideas.

BTW Sounds like a great idea

Are you aware of these guys Synapto...

http://www.aquaponicsafrica.co.za/


Even made the "news" in Nigeria...
http://timbuktuchronicles.blogspot.com/ ... frica.html

And Ken Konshel's work has spread to others down your way...

http://mid-south.net/pipermail/aquaponi ... 11690.html

Synapto , SIGN me up mate.
I'm an "A" grade Electrician ( license recognised world wide) , also have electronic Cert 4 , years of experience in mechanical systems ( Industrial size down to small). I have a Diploma in Front line management ( so know how to get people enthused / organised).
AHHH what else ..... I speak a little in several languages ( Thai , Vietnamese, German), but the Germans rusty as not used for 20 odd years).
I've been growing large number ( 10,000 kg was last harvest) , of Tilapia Niloticus and a red hybrid of niloticus/mossambicus , for several years on a farm in a very poor part of North eastern Thailand. I live and work in Sydney Australia ,, but brother-in-law runs the fish farm and we manage problems by telephone in between my visits.
I've of cause ,I've developed quite a few good contacts for fingerling and pump supplies etc.

I've travelled extensively throughout S. E Asia ,so sleeping in a thatched hut , dirt floor is nothing new to me.

I'm flooding another thread ,, oops , PM me if you are interested

I can understand why you want "specialized" people for the different tasks, for one thing, it looks good on paper but remember, the strong point of this forum is the fact that everyone helps with the solutions. You will still need a basic system as your demonstration prototype and that system will determine plumbing, type of grow system, grow media, whether you use existing earthen fish ponds or use fiberglass fish tanks, in-line or sump pumps, the maximum potential of production of plants and fish, overflow issues during rainy season, as well as other parameters. That basic system will then have to be adapted for the terrain and local needs. For example, if you use existing earthen fish ponds, the ponds are already sustainable for the amount of fish and waste produced as it is already a closed system within itself. However, production on the fish side would probably go up once connected to an aquaponics system due to better water and air quality and better nutrient removal. Even so, the maximum of fish "potential" would not be reached because waste resting on the bottom would become anerobic and actually be detrimental to the purpose. Additionally, fish production would also be limited because best animal husbandry practices are not being utilized- separating diffent ages of fish, predation of youger fish, competition between the different ages, mating behavior, etc. If the fish are removed and placed in fiberglass tanks, then you need to train the locals in fish management. This issue needs to be decided, as we all know it is water flow and the fish waste that generates the entire system.

I love the idea! I need some time off this job anyway

Skills:
Electric
Electronics control systems and microprocessors and programming
State Licensed HVAC and all the skills that go with that.
Experimenter and tinker
Carpentry
Basic Masonry
Fast learner
Plumbing
and I love camping

I am a jack of all trades but a master of none...so.. Ah.. never mind. You wanted skilled people and not of that really fits into AP experience.

Dan, don't discount yourself. I'd say that enthusiasm, willingness to try to do what it takes, flexibility and creativity are the prime skills required here. I don't think someone needs to be an expert to be of extreme use to this project. Jack-of-all-trades are extremely useful too when you are going into a situation where you aren't quite sure what you will find when you get there. Like...you were planning to use wooden supports for the growbeds with local lumber, but when you get there, you find many termites, stone and concrete. If you sent only an expert carpenter, you'd be SOL.

I think one approach would be to talk to the people and give them an overview of the system components required in a non-specific way, then let them tell you what the easiest way to do that in their community would be. Kind of like telling them what needs to be done and letting them tailor how it's implemented to their local conditions. Some folks might build with ferrocement, some might use barrels, some might use earthen dams, pumps could be from old car parts or mopeds or windmills, using livestock or people-powered. It would be ideal to help folks build a first system using local resources and leave and they on their own build five or six more after you are gone.

The other way would be to drop a pre-made system in and have them not be able to source the same kind of stuff to build another one, or to have it cost too much for them to afford another one (or five).

Is the information more sophisticated than "dig or build a pond, put fish in it, divert the water to your vegetables in a way such that the water returns to the pond" ?

Off the subject but close. I haven't had a chance to look into the Rope Pump but it sets me to thinking what else could it do.

A Wind mill can of course, pump water. However, without much effort, it could be made a crude source of power; pumping water, pumping air, driving basic stationary machines. Think a table saw, band saw or perhaps a rudimentary saw for processing lumber, a lathe for crafts or other uses. A wind charger and switchable to the other uses desired. Think about the old Belt driven tools & machines used at the start of the industrial revolution.

It seems like a likely starting point for low tech power in poor countries.

I have to give this some thought.

A recent news article reported on water in Africa. The gentleman who picked the spot for the moon landing believes he has pinpointed huge,huge deep water deposits under the dry African desert by using Sattelite imagery. How to get it to the surface is now the question. Think underground lakes larger than the Great Lakes.

EdH