Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I tried growing some extra stuff in my cousin's ornamental pond last summer. I'm guessing that the very well planted pond with it's waterfall and 12 goldfish of assorted sizes and the dozen frogs are not providing enough nutrients to grow more than the ornamentals already in the pond. That pond is down in the ground and no bigger than yours with no power in the winter to run any de-icers or anything but most of the fish seem to survive over the winters (over the past 7 years the most they seem to loose is one fish a winter and sometimes all survive.) It is important to remove as much dead organic matter in the fall as possible so that the decomposition doesn't rob too much O2 from the fish.

I expect that if you want to grow much veggies, you will need an external grow bed to handle enough waste to support the veggies.

That's good to know TC. I am prepared to add an external bed if things aren't going well.

It rained last night so I didn't get any work done on the pond. I decided since this is supposed to be a cheap and experimental introduction to AP that I am going to pass on the Tilapia for now. I can get black crappie fingerlings locally for 75 cents each. I will be picking them up Saturday. Hopefully tonight I can get the wire grid up and the pots in the water.

Brad

I expect that you will be far better off in your location going with a locally adapted fish in an outdoor pond. The cost of trying to heat the water in that pond without a greenhouse over it would likely become pretty lavish.

Using the pond for AP will just be a summer experiment. Once it starts cooling off I will either give it up for a year or if I am still hooked I will try something in our sunroom indoors. No way can I heat the pond in the winter, especially a winter like we just had.

You said earlier that you suspect if I want to grow much veggies you think I will need an external bed to handle enough waste. I am planning a pretty dense bed on top of the pond so what am I gaining with an external bed that I can't do on top of the pond? Right now I think I will have a 6 foot by 3 foot grid of plants. Each square foot will hold a net pot with about 4 inches of pea gravel and then some kind of plant(s). How can I make this better? I will be disappointed if I don't at least get some veggies

Brad

The nature of what you're doing MM, probably means plants such as lettuce and herbs....

Nothing that's too tall or needs any substain support.... typically such plants aren't high nitrate feeders..... although mint and watercress maybe... (I'll have to check those)

There are a few main reasons that most people use some sort of grow bed filled with gravel or other media.
1-biofilter, the media being flooded and drained provides perfect conditions for the biofilter bacteria that take care of the nitrogen cycle that converts ammonia to nitrite and nitrite into land plant usable Nitrate. Without adequate biofilter capacity of some sort, the plants may not get enough of the nutrients they need to thrive. The media or gravel needs to get wet very regularly or stay wet but with plenty of aeration in order to support the kind of bacteria wanted for this.

2-gravel or media filled grow bed provides convenient growing space and support for large plants.

3-gravel or media filled grow beds also provide solids filtering to keep your pond looking nice and clean as well as healthy for your fish.

Plants floating in/on or suspended over water can grow fine but there are a few things that must be taken into account.
A- some method of biofiltration to convert the ammonia into Nitrate
B- Extra aeration in the water for the health of your plants and fish (especially at night when the plants tend to strip O2 out of the water leaving fish gasping in the morning.)
C- Some method of solids filtration.

I don't know if perhaps your waterfall and skimmer might already be enough to support your plans. (I do know the pond where I tried floating plants, didn't work so well, the basil and lettuce were stunted and never really got past seedling stage, but that might have been due to all the pond plants in that ornamental pond.)

I really think that if you want to get tomatoes out of your pond, you probably want a few flood and drain buckets or barrels at the very least. The lettuce and herbs will probably be fine floating or suspened.

Mint, you could probably put in a basket right in the side of the pond and it will go nuts in any case.

I was hoping to get some tomato plants going and maybe a little corn along with beans, peppers and lettuce and onions. I can put up some posts and wire for support if/when they get to that point. What would I need to support these plants? More gravel for more bacteria? I also have a 5 gallon bucket filled with lava rock with the pump in the bottom of it sitting at the bottom of the pond. I was hoping that would add to the surface area for bacteria.

Excuse my ignorance, but I am still trying to figure out what the balance of all this is. I see people growing tomatoes in external beds and I am curious what their setup has that mine is lacking in order to do this.

Tomatoes and corn need lots of support. I know tomatoes can be tied up with string but how are you going to reach out over the pond to do this if they are suspended in the middle?
Corn usually wants it's support from what the roots are growing in. It isn't that you can't grow them other ways but in a gravel bed is probably the simplest solution.

Beans could probably go in the suspended system as they will likely just twine around the support wires provided you grow pole bean types. The lettuce would also be fine floating or suspended.

The 5 gallon bucket with the lava rock is a good start but you need to make sure there is lots of O2 for the bacteria to work in a constantly submerged location like that. Perhaps add an air stone?

Don't feel back about asking question, that is what forums are here for!!!!
If you feel strongly about trying to do the suspension over the pond for your experiment, please stick to your guns. If you are really just looking for the cheapest or simplest way to try out aquaponics with your existing pond, then here is an idea.
Make a grow bed out of something. (a storage bin, a feed trough, a stock tank, some wood and pond liner or even heavy duty builder's plastic)
With a bulkhead fitting or uniseal set up a drain with a simple loop siphon so it can drain into your waterfall or back to the pond. (biggest challenge here will be supporting your grow bed at the right height and adjusting the flow into the growbed so the siphon works right.)
Once grow bed is filling and draining right. surround drain with something to keep media from clogging in, it can also be a good idea to plumb in an overflow pipe in case something clogs the siphon. Fill grow bed with gravel or whatever. Now you can start cycling the system, add fish and plants. If you find that there are plenty of Nitrates to support more plants than fit in your grow bed, add lettuce, beans, etc over the pond itself. If you find that there is more ammonia/nitrite (after things have cycled) than your grow bed can process, you need more gravel, water plants, or to feed the fish less.
I hope this makes things a little simpler

I don't know what kind of waterfall you have for that pond but perhaps you could fill that with more gravel and add some air stones into, support plant through a board over it and grow plants there!!!!

Great info guys, I really appreciate it. It looks like I have a decision to make now about whether to proceed as planned or go with the external bed. I hope I will have enough gravel between what is in the net baskets and the lava rock in the crude biofilter. That biofilter kept the pond very clear last summer but there were only 5 small goldfish, so who knows. The net baskets have 120 pounds of pea gravel in them. I have some more lava rock I could add as well. The pond is concrete and I hope that provides some surface area too.

I guess the concern is whether I will have enough O2. I am thinking that finding a way of adding O2 will be easier and cheaper at this point than setting up an external grow bed and doing the plumbing. My wife is already starting to give me dirty looks when she hears what I am spending My pump is bigger than I need for this pond I think so is there a way of adding more O2 by putting a tee fittting on the output of the pump and having one side pump water to the waterfall and the other spary a little fountain upwards or something? The O2 stone sounds liek a reasonable solution too.

The pond is very clear right now but since I turned on the waterfall I have some white bubbly stuff on top. I wouldn't call it foam like I have seen on some stagnant water, but pools of white bubbles. Anything to be concerned with? I know the correct thing to do is get the water test kit, but as mentioned previously my monthly AP budget is already maxed out. I will try to get pics tonight.

TC, I think my pond is narrow enough that I would be able to reach the tomatoes suspended in the middle. Let's just hope I have the problem of getting to the fruit

Brad

Sure thing MM... if you're pumps stronger than needed then certainly plumb in a bypass as you suggest.... it's better than trying to throttle the pump down.....

Many others do so for that very reason... and it provides additional aeration... win, win

Good to know OZ. I might ask for more details on that when I get to that point.

Brad

GOLD star to TCLynx for knowing the 3 (three, count them) functions of a grow bed!



Good to see the info being absorbed and passed on to the next generation

I got the frame for the net pots set up today. The rebar frame with wire grid proved fruitless as it was too hard to get the wire taut enough to prevent sagging. I changed to an all rebar grid frame.

1. My gravel washing pales in comparison to most on this board, but technically I have now washed gravel

2. I decided it was unlikely I would grow crappie to table size in the course of the summer so I opted for goldfish instead. I paid for 3 dozen 1 1/2 to 2 inch feeders but what they call a dozen is what lands in the net in one scoop. Could be 20, could be 40. Regardless, they are in the pond.

3. I added a couple cups of Biological Clarifier Plus from Crystal Clear. It is an activated barley with bacteria and enzymes to help clean the pond. I already had this from last year and was hoping it would help charge the system. Note that before scooping out sludge off the bottom of the pond it was VERY clear already. I just figured I need the bacteria to break down nitrogen. Was this a reasonable idea?

4. I am looking for feedback on everything. Not so much how it looks (though it got an A+ in appearance from the boss as it is "unobtrusive") but more on functionality. I am pretty sure I will hear back that I need more gravel in the net pots. It is bad for the plants to have 2-3 inches of stem submerged?

5. This is a summer experiment, but I am excited about AP and if things go well I might try a year round indoor system. My biggest goal out of this summer is to get some tomatoes. Any help achieving that is greatly appreciated.

6. There is danger of frost the next couple of nights but after that I think the veggies are going in.

7. My pics were too big to upload so I am linking to my site.

http://gallery.bradandkim.net/main.php?g2_itemId=11602

Username: ap
Password: ponics

I will lower the resolution on my pics and attach them when I can.

Thanks,

Brad

Pictures are, they say worth 1000 words. You have done nicely!
Like the design with the wire suport for the net baskets. I think it will work just fine. Spose the goldies will love dodging thru the plant roots, at worst they may snack on a few, like underwater hedge trimmers?
Nice job.

Thanks GF. Yeah, any roots that grow through the net pots are fair game for the goldies! It's been fun so far, and the concept is incredible. Let's just hope for some tomatoes!

Brad