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PostPosted: Mar 12th, '08, 01:22 
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Why are protein skimmers desirable?


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PostPosted: Mar 12th, '08, 01:23 
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In reef aquariums you want as many nutrients stripped out as possible, that's where you see skimmers used the most.

For AP they aren't needed, unless there aren't enough plants. Even then a water change would be easier.

A skimmer might be difficult to produce in a freshwater AP system. They aren't used for freshwater like they are for marine because the foam doesn't form as easily.


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PostPosted: Mar 12th, '08, 02:45 
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Like Dave D. said in a saltwater system (usually a reef system) you want to remove as much protien from the system as possible and no other filtration system works as well as a properly operating protien skimmer for the space required.

Dave its no harder to make a protien skimmer for a freshwater system than a saltwater system they just aren't as efficient in a freshwater system.

They would be another handy gadget to have if you harvested too much of your growbed and still had a heavy load of fish. Or if you didn't have enough growbed space/volume to begin with.


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PostPosted: Mar 15th, '08, 04:24 
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Ok, this is not a FSB (fluidized sand bed) filter. Its bead clarifier filter which is only fluidized during cleaning. Its a DIY homemade bubble washed bead filter.

I copied the design from http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/BubbleBead.html only in a miniature fashion using 3 inch PVC.

Here are the basic of operation:
Quote:
Theory of Operation

Bead filters function both as a solids capture device and a biofilter. They operate very much like a submerged rock bed or undergravel filter except that they are designed to facilitate cleaning. Bead filters dramatically simplify operations by providing two of the most important water reconditioning processes, clarification and biofiltration in a single unit. Clarification is the process of removing suspended solids from water. Suspended solids in a pond consist of small particles of partially digested food, debris, algae, bacteria, clays, and silts, which are small enough to stay suspended in the water column for an extended period of time. Fine suspended solids tend to make the water opaque, interfering with the clarity of the water. The larger organic particles, on the other hand, represent a serious wasteload problem and can consume tremendous amounts of oxygen while adversely impacting the hygienic pond ecology. Bead filters are considered excellent clarification units, capable of maintaining display quality water at high waste loading rates. Bead filters remove suspended solids by four different mechanisms as the recirculated pond water is passed through the plastic bead bed. Physical straining is probably the most dominant mechanism for the larger particles (>80 microns). The bulk of the suspended particles (20-80 microns) are probably removed by interception, a subtle process caused by collisions between the particle and the bead media surface. The finest particles (<20 microns) are removed by bead filtration, but at a slower rate. It is believed that bioabsorption, the capture of particles by the bacterial biofilm, is the dominant process attacking these fine particles.

Biofiltration depends on the development of a filter bed that encourages the growth of beneficial bacteria, which extract dissolved chemicals from the water and convert them to particulate biomass or harmless dissolved compounds. Given the proper encouragement, the bacteria grow in a thin film, coating the surface of each of the 600,000 beads contained in every cubic foot of media. There are literally hundreds of species of bacteria at work in a biofilter. Most of the bacteria fall into the category of "heterotrophic" bacteria, which actively break down organic materials into carbon dioxide and water. The most critical however, are broadly described as nitrifying bacteria, consisting primarily of the genera Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter. Nitrifying bacteria are responsible for the conversion of the toxic nitrogen forms of ammonia and nitrite to the relatively harmless nitrogen form of nitrate . Success and a wide variety of parameters that influence bead biofiltration have been identified. The pond hobbyist should be aware of these factors. However, the pond itself generally contains a very active population of nitrifying bacteria, so optimization of the filter's operation can be relaxed.

Backwashing

Bead filters spend most of their time in the filtration mode (Figure 1). As the recirculating pond waters pass through the bed, solids consisting of fish feces, algae, zooplankton, debris, and biofloc accumulate, gradually clogging the filter. For most pond applications, the clogging process generally occurs over a one to two week period.

Bubble-washed bead filters are designed to be self-washing when drained. The discharge of the filter is equipped with a valve (or check valve) that prevents the backflow of air into the filter when the sludge (or drain) valve on the bottom is opened. This causes a vacuum to form within the filter housing. An air valve on the side of the filter is opened so that air can be sucked into the filter as it drains (Figure 2). This air injection line is located below the washing throat, in the middle of the filter. This constriction is critical to the washing operation. Water dropping out of the filtration head causes the beads to fluidize downward and pass through the narrow throat where they are scrubbed further by the rising bubbles. The washing process is complete once the filter is drained and all the beads have dropped into the expansion chamber (Figure 3). The next filtration cycle is started by readjusting the valves and refilling the filter with the The energy for backwashing is generated from the hydrostatic pressure stored in the filtration chamber. Draining alone is not sufficient to wash the beads; so, the bubble-washed filter is configured to release waste while sucking in air below the washing throat. The rate at which the water stored in the filter is drained, and thus the vigor of the washing, is controlled by the siphon head formed between the elevation of the internal end of the air injection line and the elevation of the first air break in the sludge discharge line (Figure 6). Typically, hourglass filters are designed with a minimum siphon head of about six inches, which is sufficient for most applications. If the filter is mounted 12 to 24 inches above the ground, then a drop pipe can be attached to the sludge discharge line and the siphon head can be increased to 12 to 18 inches, doubling or tripling the rate of draining. This increased siphon head will translate into a quicker and more vigorous wash. Drop pipes dramatically increase the filter's resistance to clogging. Their use increases the amount of fish the filter can support without shortening the backwash interval.


I did use my $29 harbor freight plastic welder for the project. Still, it was a simple 2 hour project. The cost came out to $69 with all new parts.

I looked every where for media and could only find a source of food grade LDPE beads from the makers of the poly geyser bubble wash system. The price would have been $31 delivered for 8.25 pounds (.25 cubic feet media). Well, being that I was in a hurry and my fish needed clean water asap I found rolls of .25 inch LDPE tubing precut to 25 foot at Lowes.
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Each roll weighs about .25 pounds. I cut up 3 rolls and it weighed about a pound. First I thought I would cut it in short 1/8 inch sections.
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But then I decided to splitting the tubing in half to avoid the possibility of anaerobic spaces in tubes.
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Here is 1 25 foot roll cut up and put in a 16 oz solo cup.
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Next, I cut up my pipe making the top section longer to hold more water for the purpose of getting more bubbles through the media during cleaning. I only added enough filter media to fill the bottom chamber below the washing throat. I drilled holes and welded the pipes into place after drilling some extra holes in the inlet and outlet pipes. I glued a union in the middle for later access to the inside of the filter.
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Next, I set some screens in place to keep the filter media in. I used fiberglass screen. At the top I cut out a disk that overlapped the pipe and the cap was forced on pinching the screen between the cap and pipe all the way around.
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For the bottom I just used a stainless hose clamp to hold a screen over the inlet pipe.
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Notice the air inlet tube in centered under the 1.5 inch washing throat.
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For the bottom cap I could not find a flat one so I used a "test cap" with lots of glue. I hope this will be fine, there will not be any real pressure on this anyway.
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And so I finally got it all together in about two hours.
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After letting the glue dry for 13 hours I hooked it up to my dirty little fish tank and is at this moment filtering out the junk from my tank.
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I used a couple 3 way ball valves that way I have the ability to go into bypass mode during cleaning letting water continue to be pumped through the FSB filter. I can also run it in a backwash mode to remove that extra junk if I get to busy to clean it every day or two.

I talked to the people who build the polyGeyser and bubble wash filters. They said that after a good bio film is in place their filters would remove particles down to 5 micron; by sticking action. They use 1/8 inch LDPE beads.


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PostPosted: Mar 15th, '08, 04:53 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Dan just a question i dont seem to be able to get my head around filters why do people use filters sand . fluidized . those ones in the 100 litre drums [garry has 2] Why not use the grow beds i have 3000 litres of fish water going through 3 filter beds 1000 litre total i then use the filtered water for a another 3 beds [vermiculite and a nft setup]


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PostPosted: Mar 15th, '08, 05:02 
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When you can not have enough grow bed you need more bio filter you can use a fluidized sand bed filter to process 100% of your ammonia and nitrites. Medium sized sand has a surface to volume ratio of about 1000:1 so 1 cubic meter of sand would have the surface area of 1000 square meters.

The bead filter is for clearification of the water because I dont have my grow beds in place yet. Also, to raise tilipia in winter I must be 100% indoors and still be able to keep feeding rates for normal growth. A FSB will allow me to replace 1200 gallons of gravel with 1.3 gallons of fluidized sand. This way all waste is processed indoors. Then Very heavily seeded NFT and rafts will work to remove nitrates until weather gets warm enough to use the out door grow beds. Of course, when running indoors during the winter without grow beds I will have to remove the poop and waste food from the water; thus the need for a bead filter (because its so easy to clean and does not require buying filters). The FBS will not remove solids.

As to why commercial operations use filters, I don't know perhaps they think the poop must be removed first. They really missed the boat in that department, but them most of them are only interested in raising NFT crops that make a lot of money. Fruit is not as profitable as herbs, lettuce etc.


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PostPosted: Mar 15th, '08, 05:05 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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DanDMan wrote:
When you can not have enough grow bed you need more bio filter you can use a fluidized sand bed filter to process 100% of your ammonia and nitrites. Medium sized sand has a surface to volume ratio of about 1000:1 so 1 cubic meter of sand would have the surface area of 1000 square meters.

The bead filter is for clearification of the water because I dont have my grow beds in place yet. Also, to raise tilipia in winter I must be 100% indoors and still be able to keep feeding rates for normal growth. A FSB will allow me to replace 1200 gallons of gravel with 1.3 gallons of fluidized sand. This way all waste is processed indoors. Then Very heavily seeded NFT and rafts will work to remove nitrates until weather gets warm enough to use the out door grow beds. Of course, when running indoors during the winter without grow beds I will have to remove the poop and waste food from the water; thus the need for a bead filter (because its so easy to clean and does not require buying filters). The FBS will not remove solids.

Thanks for that dident think about snow


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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '08, 00:03 
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After letting the above filter run for a day my water was much more clear. I did a bubble wash / back wash to see what it had captured. Simply amazing! After just 1 day of running the bubble wash "bead filter" removed a lot of junk. Needles to say I am impressed with how this filter cleans and how it washes the beads clean with air bubbles. It waste very little water on clean out. Take a look!


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File comment: The food and poop removed from the tank after only 1 day of operation. I am impressed!
filth.JPG
filth.JPG [ 107.44 KiB | Viewed 8709 times ]
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PostPosted: Mar 18th, '08, 08:54 
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The fish tank water went from a dark tea color to clear in two days.


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File comment: Clear water in tow days from the bubble washed bead filter.
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CleanderWater.JPG [ 192.29 KiB | Viewed 8725 times ]
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PostPosted: Mar 18th, '08, 09:41 
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The tilapia look like they're asking what the 'ell is going on?!?

Some of them look like they have bloody noses?

Where'd you put the solidly goodness, on the dirt garden?


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PostPosted: Mar 19th, '08, 07:29 
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The just have dark noses. These tilapia all come to the front of the glass when you get near to watch you. They do this when they are not being fed 5 square meals a day. I thinks its a puppy dog eye look; PLEASE! feed me?

I put the solid goodies on my grape vine..


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PostPosted: Apr 8th, '08, 23:40 
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Just a quick update for some info regarding the bubble washed filter media.

The beads are capable of providing all the bio filtration at the rate of .5 pounds of feed to 1 cubic foot of media.

So, for me I need to process feeding 90 pounds of tilapia 3% of their body weight; or 2.7 pounds of feed per day. I will call it three pounds. That means I would need 6 cubic feet of bead media.

Again, this will be my bio filter during the winter months so I can run indoors using NFT.


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PostPosted: Apr 22nd, '08, 21:31 
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Ok 39 days from putting my bead filter online to now when the ammonia abruptly dropped from ~1 to 0. The bacteria is established! It took a while. The system water temp was between 72 and 76 with a pH of 7-ish. Now there are many variables here. I have also been running the fluidized sand bed filter about that long. 13 days ago I added a large double hand full of sand to the FSB also. However, a good bit of the time the inlet tube has not been all the way down into the sand.

I dont know if its the FSB or the bead filter, but the ammonia dropped all of the sudden.

This gives me the idea that on the next 25% of this system I am building I will put these filters on that system and cycle the filter up so that fish can be added straight away and the gravel beds can get established slowly without any HSM's. Why the heck did I not do this to begin with? :roll:


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PostPosted: Apr 23rd, '08, 06:55 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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...Why the heck did I not do this to begin with?

Aaahhhh!!!! - hindsight, truly the best tool in an BYAPers tool kit :lol:

Well done on your experiments Dan, been reading all with interest :wink:


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PostPosted: May 12th, '08, 20:32 
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Update on the FSB. I have taken the FSB out of the system because I am trying to cycle my gravel now and no matter how much I fed the fish or 'dosed' with humonia I have been unable to get detectable levels of ammonia.

Now after having removed the FSB I get an ammonia reading of .25 so clearly the FSB was doing a bang-up job of bio-filtration with only heavy feeding. The bubble washed bead filter is still in place and doing its job well enough that it brings the ammonia down over a couple days. I think I am going to leave it installed for now so that when winter comes I can take the established bio film and place it into a new larger bubble washed bead filter.


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