Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I've now killed two batches of goldfish/minnows.

3/24/08-3/25/08
The first batch I had in a 5gal bucket, with aged water from the system. I went to bed with alive fish, woke up to all dead fish.

I figured they died because of no oxygen. The chlorine should have been gone. I hadn't formally rinsed out the bucket (it was brand new) but it had done a lot of water carrying and hydroton carrying. So I would hope that anything toxic on the surface of the bucket had long been washed/scoured off. But maybe not. I discarded the water in the bucket.

I didn't have my test kits yet, so I can't give readings.

I got my test kit the next day, and the test for the system water were:
Ammonia: 1.0 pH: 7.4 (didn't test the rest, because I figured they'd all be 0 w/no fish in the system)

3/29/08-3/30/08
The second batch of fish were in the fish tank of the system. Tests were:
pH: 8.0 Am: 1.0 Nitrate: 0.0 Nitrite 0-5. Dissolved oxygen sufficient. (don't remember, but it was within the range)
At this point I was running the system with about 13 min flood/drain cycles.
I put the fish in at 6:00pm (using the proper fish introduction process), and checked at 9:00pm, and there were at least some alive fish (I'd fished out one dead one by then). When I checked at maybe midnight, I think most were dead, but the water was cloudy, so I couldn't tell for sure.

This morning, all were dead.

I haven't tested the water yet this morning, because I figure with dead fish in it all night, the readings wouldn't be much good, anyway.


SO:
What next?

Here's what I figure could be happening.

1) Bad fish
-- I doubt this. I got both batches from a well-respected locally owned shop. From three different tanks.

2) There's a component in the system which is toxic. I've followed the barrelponics manual pretty well, so everything in the system is standard: pvc, water bottles, vinyl tubing, fishtank silicone, brass or stainless fixtures where I didn't use plastic.

I did use an old fish weight for the flapper system, it might be lead. I'll change it out.

3) Bad water - well duh.
3a) The water out of the tap in my basement has something in it which is toxic for fish.
-- How to test: Get a goldfish or beta that can live in a simple bowl, and put it in aged water and see how long it lasts.

3b) I didn't age the water long enough.
-- It had been cycling through the system, sitting, or being aerated for 3-4 days. I'm told my system is chlorine and not chloramine. It should have been gone.

I can buy water declorinator and try it.

3c) There is some residue on the pipes or barrels that is toxic.
-- This is the most likely.
o Should I just change out the water, age it again, and try again?
o Should I scrub out the barrels again? I'd prefer not to scrub my growbeds, as they're now planted, but I could scrub out the flush tank and fishtank. The pipes would be a bit harder.
o Disassemble the whole thing and scrub scrub scrub, or try with new materials.

4) I'm just toxic to living things
-- Well, I had a beta when I was young that lived years longer than I wanted it to. I have living dogs and ferrets in my house, but I can't grow plants in soil containers to save my life.

Did I miss anything? Any recommendations on how to proceed?

I just redid the ammonia and nitrate test. The levels haven't changed from yesterday. So either I have a bad test kit, or the nitrogen isn't the problem. *sigh*

I can't drain the system right now due to other plumbing issues. Time to call the plumber...

Are the tests the strips or the drip kind of tests? Some of us have had weird readings from the strip tests.

drip. It's the master freshwater kit mentioned elsewhere on this board.

Swanberg,
My first immediate reaction when I started reading about your issues with dead fish was Chlorine/chloramine. You might ask the people at the fish shop. A water conditioner to deal with chlorine/chloramine might be in order in case the info about the type of water treatment is wrong. A water filter (like britta or something) can also deal with chlorine/chloramine though it could take a while to process enough water.

do you have copper plumbing? Copper and zinc can be bad for fish if there is too much. galvanizing is a source for zinc.

Someone on the Barrelponics list thought that a pH of 8 and ammonia of 1 would kill the fish right quick. I can test that, so I like that solution. =)

I will try water ager as well.

There are copper pipes in my system, and in the city's system. But I know lots of people have fish here, so I wonder what they're doing? Is there a way to de-copper water? I'd hate to have to buy 50gal of bottled/distilled water.

*fires up google*

Hmm. "Ion exchange resins" will remove copper - slowly!

I was kinda suprised at the mention that your source water has ammonia reading 1. If your water is treated with chlorine and you have that much ammonia in the water, it is probably turned into chloramine and hence the water conditioner might be what you need. Read instructions carefully I guess before you buy to make sure it is what you need.

The pH and the ammonia together could have something to do with it too, I just wonder why your tap water reads such a high ammonia level.

Good luck sorting it all out and finding the answers!

Activated charcoal can take toxic elements from the water too.

What is the colour of the water? Is it whitish? Did you seed with a specific component as an aquarium bacteria product? I've had a friend that lost a few fish from that today.

How many fish did the batch count? Try with one fish for a start. Increase slowly. Ammonia is high too.

Let the system wait for a week with the act charcoal and check the ammonia reading then. Get a goldie and try again.

I hope things will sort themselves out.

Some more pics:


Some seedlings added (not that you can really see them).


I wrapped the fish tank in an insulating blanket, and added a heater.


I'm protecting the pipe at the bottom of the GBs with a 24oz (710ml) pop bottle instead of irrigation pipe. This works fairly well, but the holes have to be drilled so that they don't cause too much turbulence for the siphon to form, or break it too early.

A few more pics at my flickr stream.

for some reason that plastic bottle device looks familiar...

Specially with a pipe in it...

I don't get your reference, but I probably saw that option here somewhere.

(Or do you think it looks like a bong? I'm completely ignorant of that culture and the gadgets that go with it...)

Sorry for that Karen. It was a joke, my scholarship is finished but still reminds me of good souvenirs. And it was fun to get the joke from a guy at the other side of the world. And i think that this culture is different from countries to countries, from what i've seen they seem quite extreme in the US which is not my point of vue.

Anyway did you retest the water without fish?
Have you added any treatment?
Could you degaz some water and do tests to check if the ammonia can be degased as it can happen sometimes.

woohoo man, i'm looking forward to see the growth under another led experiment!

great stuff and encouragement for me!

p.s.

is the hydroton light enough to not squish that bottle?

keep on the good work:)