Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I was looking at wind power, but after checking out the Bureau of Meterology site and checked the annual average wind speed, was not worth the investment. This is a good site to check rainfalls temps wind etc for your area have data going back 30 years or more. It i interesting to not that the average rainfall hasnt changed that much for my area.

The is no way, wind-->electricity-->water pump is more efficient that a direct mechanical wind water pump. Think about the losses involved with the conversions. First there will be an energy loss at the generator itself, loss from wiring and rectification, storage and charge controller, then wiring again to the pump and ultimately the loss from the operation of the pump.

The no reason most home solar setups are 24 volts or higher is to lower the current in the system. Lower current means more solar panels in parallel, the wiring doesn't have to be as heavy, the charge controller is smaller and less expensive and the battery bank can be arranged to improve efficiency.

Same goes for wind power. A 120W wind generator for example could be configured give 12V @ 10A, 24V @ 5A or 48V @ 2.5A. Now a small portable win gen on a caravan or boat would most likely be 12-24V because of the short cable run. A larger wind generator may have a cable run of up to 100m so therefore to reduce the need for higher gauge wire the system is setup to run in 48 or possibly 96V. Some setups would even run the high voltage, unregulated AC current back to a remote position before it is regulated into DC, again reducing cable loss and cost.

My solar panels are designed to output two ~6V rails. I then put them in series to get 12V @ 5A or Parallel to get 6V @ 10A. I can then pair up two solar panels to give me 24V @ 5A or 12V @10A or even 6V @ 20A. It is flexible depending on the system requirements.... My setup is 24V, mainly because I only have a 60A charge controller.

energy loss is a given but I believe I said a wind powered pump would not be as good as an electric pump because of the variable flow rate of the water due to wind speed not being constant. So it was never about efficency but more about stability. Power loss was never a concern of the discussion.

Windmills are for dutch people. If you need wind power use a savonious rotor and you eliminate the need for height to avoid turbulance.

As for the theory of solar power, it's up to opinion about the setup, I sell photovoltaic cells and related products and there are rarely 2 systems the same. Everyones needs are different so whatever you have may suit you but not everyone else. But again you only read what you wanted to read and thus the wind power thread got a whole heap of info that most people won't understand, just to shut my ideas down... good stuff.

I don't believe my intention was to shut you down. I just wanted clear up a few inconsistencies and questions that were left unanswered. The people who want to get into renewable energy will HAVE to understand some of the things I have said. And did I say there was only one way of doing things? NO! I think you are the one reading what you want to read...

And for your information I did read this whole thread... I read every post on this website... That is why I have no time for my system...

If you pump the water up a hill or to a raised tank you`ll get a constant flowrate until it runs out.. in essence its a battery for water

Exactly Hex... Just like pumping water up to a header tank. Power goes out, valve opens water empties to main tank. Wind continues to pump water to the tank until it is full again...

Its called thinking outside the box...

That idea might work in theory, who has a wind powered water pump? They are down right hopeless. A friends father spent $2k on a wind powered pump, (lives on the coast plenty of wind)and it was useless he sold it, bought a solar bore pump for about the same price and it is 10 times more efficient. Using a wind pump for a back up system is a waste of time and money. You will only get a constant flow rate if the tank is full. What happens when the tank is empty and the wind isn't powerful enough to pump the water up a hill. What then? Much better to use wind to generate electricity rather than pump water. If you don't think it is, then build one and prove me wrong. I've actually worked with both and I am speaking from experience not making up theories.

Edited

Please keep this thread on the discussion of wind power, I'm learning a lot.

Please don't get personal though.

AZ, every farm and station I have worked on has these, granted they are not the best thing invented for pumping water BUT they still work

By the same token, if the batteries are flat and the wind isn`t enough to generate any electrical power you`ll be pretty much in the same boat..no water pumping.

Your fathers friend used a solar bore pump, it may be 10 times more efficient, but it doesnt use wind to generate the electrical power

AZ I disagree with you on the windmill being hopeless to pump water but will agree on the fact you have a right to say it

I think some types could be better for pumping water than generating power.
Savonius windmills are limited to a tip speed of 1x the windspeed, so they`d probably need a gearbox to provide a much higher rpm at the generator. That would affect the efficiency and the startup windspeed requirement.

The savonius is more a tractor than a ferrari, good for pulling (pumping?) but not for speed

I think I am glad I missed the edited part...

Lets clear things up....

If we are talking about efficiency then mechanical water pumping is more efficient than using an electric wind generator. Simply put with fewer conversions the NET energy loss is smaller... Pumping water to a header tank or pond, could be considered to be an energy storage much like a battery.

For reliability as in chance of failure. IMHO I would take a mechanical system any day. The mechanical system has much fewer points of failure. Granted moving parts fail. So do cables, controllers, relays, batteries and coils. Those windmills have lasted for decades, with regular maintenance.

Now, effectiveness! I think this can be disputed. Like you said there is always some wind. Taking two ultra efficient wind turbine designs, one mechanical pumping and the other electrical. I would say that with the right setup a mechanical system could be more effective. I don't have all night to work out the NET energy loss of both systems, but considering the complexity of a wind charged system you would imagine that it would be less effective. Now this is all just theoretical however, real world situations can be different.

Now something that may be interesting.... What about a hybrid setup? Having a PMG on a set of blades or a rotor for suburban areas. Running the PMG (permanent magnet generator) open circuit would allow the turbine to spin freely allowing the engagement of a mechanical water or air pump. When RPM drops below a significant level needed for mechanical puming the PMG is connected to a charge controller and charges the batteries.

OR... use the mechanical energy to fill a header tank, when it is full engage the generator and charge the batteries.

I think it all gets down to the windmill design for the application and where it can be situated. Theoretical is all very interesting however practicallity could make either the more useful and efficient.