Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

It is an evolving issue I think. I will shortly have available in Victoria an organic silver perch/golden perch pellet. It is certified as such by the Biological Farmers of Australia and the USDA.

With regard to the fishmeal in it, this comes from the waste of wild caught tuna, it is not from fish harvested specifically for fish meal. The distinction is very important.

It would seem we would see an organic perch product in fish markets very soon.

Organic fresh produce is currently defined as having been grown in soil i think. I feel once other grow media are recognised as valid then certification will follow once a standards framework has been set. For example, expanded clay balls and blue metal will be tested, have defined parameters that will then become an accepted grow media for organic certification.

I don't see a real issue with plants that fruit above ground level gaining certification but there might be an issue with things like carrots. This is bc the bit we eat is in actual contact with the fish waste. It may be something as simple as a solids pre filter to get rootcrops over the line.

I am sure it will get sorted, we just need to work thru the 'P' rocess!

1. on organic feeds: good initiative, let me know all about it.

2. on organic growing media:
http://www.beautifullandproducts.com/OGrow.html

3. As for perch and other percids (i.e. pikeperch/sander/walleye), I have just come back yesterday from the extremely interesting international 3-day workshop organized jointly by Université de Namur (Belgium) and Nancy Université (France) where I gathered a bunch of knowledge.
Over a hundred specialist attendants from all over the world, including (a.o.) Holland, Australia, Canada, the U.S., ...

http://www.percid.be/introduction.htm
http://www.luciopercimprove.be/
http://www.ensaia.inpl-nancy.fr/percatech/

A promise was made to post all presentations as PDF's on one or all of these sites. Well worth the reading! (but give the guys some time).

One poster "production of eurasian perch in aquaponic" spoke of an aquaponics perch experiment set up in Switzerland.
here

4. aquaponics hatchery:
Is anybody aware of an aquaponics based hatchery?
I am looking for all info and experience on this subject.
I am considering trying to breed organic strains of percids, which is an essential part of the organic system.

greetings

Frank

For WA members, a visit to 'A Garden Path' in Bedfordale could be of interest. It is a certified organic demonstration site. Part of the Australian Open Garden scheme, it also offers garden tours and workshops for adults and school groups. Owner Caralyn Lagrange won the 2007 WA Environment Award and has published her book 'Gardening and Eating for Living', a manual on organic gardening.

i just got back from 'A Garden Path' and had a great time. can't think of a better way to spend australia day. others would think i'm mad.

in my short stay i learned an aweful lot. my question about composting paper was answered.

this site keeps on proving its worth. if it wasn't for this site i would never have even known what was right under my nose.

i urge those who are interested in organics to get along and have a look at some stage. this place is a great asset to the community and should be supported.

the place echo's with good vibes.

thank you Adrian and Caralyn for your hospitality. its great to know there are still some great peeps in this world.

thank you Joel for opening the path of communication.

at this rate ap will be certified in no time.

I went to an organic farm/ farm shop on the old Calder Hwy near Woodend today and had a short but informative conversation with one of the owners.

They grow a bunch of stuff themselves but also sell a lot of stuff from other organic farms. Recently they have one a bunch of awards and just secured the contract to supply the Pancake Parlour (National chain of resturants for those overseas). I mentioned AP and he said that a lot of his suppliers are not certifed but that the proof was in the pudding. He puts a greater emphasis on escorting people around his shop and farm rather than showing them his paperwork.

Sorry to disagree,
but the proof is NOT in the pudding.

I will not invite for a drink all the scammers that abuse the word "Organic" (or "Bio" in Belgium) to sell ordinary products, if only because that would be very cosltly. They are there in great numbers.

Certification is the only way to ensure that you, as a customer, get the right stuff. And certification protects the honest growers.

But certification is expensive, and if you can convince your clients that you are growing "organically" (i.e. by letting them visit your setup), that is alright with me.

But you should not LABEL products as organic if you -or your supplier(s)- are not certified.

Confidence is good, control is better.
So take heed.
And remember that the person showing you around will not take you to the closet where he hides the forbidden products he may be using.

Frank

good points you raise hygicell,

when i visited 'A Garden Path' the owner Caralyn mentioned that there is currently no legislation to stop anyone selling their product as organic. you can use nasty chemicals and legally sell the product as organic. this is crazy and hopefully there will be legislation coming through soon to prevent this. makes me wonder if the "organic" section at the supermarkets really are. wouldn't surprise me if they weren't. those corporations are only in it for profit and have no ethics.

the IGA chain of food stores over here just started doing small "Organic food" tables / displays . Looks more like "Unwashed , expensive , mangey looking food" rather than "organic"

I wonder if they do that in pounds - "oh , dont worry ma'am , that dogs not sick , its just unwashed , scraggly looking and more expensive - see , its ORGANIC! "

I avoided their organic food - theres no labeling/ signs , nothing to say where its from , just rubbishy hand written , badly spelled price lists on pieces of A4 paper . and beetroots arent supposed to be a sickly grey/brown colour if theyre "organic"

The words "Organic" (GB) and "Bio" (Belgium) and some in other languages (i.e. Oeko I think in Germany) are protected in the EEC.
It is strictly forbidden to use them even in a name if the product is not certified.
I seem to remember some big concerns like Danone have even had to change some of their (existing!) brand names as a result of these laws.
You should find out if such a law exists in your country and if so, file a complaint with every trespasser.

Frank

Well according to Caralyn no such laws exist yet at least in my state. not sure if its a state or federal issue though. Caralyn is a leading expert on organics and would know better than anyone. this country is behind in most of its legislation though. double standards all round. i think its crazy that there is virtually no regulation of what goes into our food. i think most people would be outraged if they knew. this is especially the case in the fish market. sure there is legislation preventing certain practices in australia, however there is very little regulation of imported product. who knows what the practices are like overseas. i recently stopped buying fish from most Japaneses restaurant here because of this. not because i'm a racist but because what i have heard about bassa. most around here use it. having said this i imagine most chicken is that same.

just gotta grow all my own "organically".

Organic certification is not really that costly it seems to be based on the size or/and the sales of your operation from what I can tell. I'm expecting to pay around $400-500. The biggest obsticle I think, is the record keeping and it seems you have to be running for three years prior to certification. Its not enough to grow naturally but you must show your are ready to deal with problems, so a control program in place. A secondary source of power in the event of failure etc. Fish must be harvested without subjecting them to undue stress and a number of other things. High stocking densities are out in that the fish need room to excersise.
What do you get for all of this?
The ability to show you are running a (Certified) organic operation.
I can say its organic or natural or what ever now but cant use the sticker.

I am adamant:
if the legally protected name for certified organic produce is "usda organic" and/or comes with a sticker, then by definition all other products are NOT "usda organic" and therefore should not be considered as organic simply because, as you state yourself: "I can say its organic or natural or what ever". Apparently without any obligation or control.
That gives too much room for falsification.
Not labeling your product as organic if it is not certified is just plain honesty.
Even simply suggesting that it is organic if it is not is dishonest.
One should at least explain clearly the difference: "we grow as much as we can according to organic methods and rules, but are not certified because... (i.e. we hate the paperwork !).

Stating that you know and treat your fish well doesn't make you a fish veterinarian (not even if you are more experienced with fish than most veterinarians), nor does speaking well and fluently make you a lawyer, whatever you say.

We should all get a bit more serious about protecting our interests if we want credibility.

now doesn't that make sense?

Frank

sure does, but have you spoken to any government officials lately? i imagine its like trying to hit shit up a hill with a stick. what can we do? i'll do whats in my power. your right we need to protect our interests though.

any thoughts?

It has always been up to the consumer. So if it is not certified organic by whatever state government agency that would have jursidiction then it is a good guess its not really organic?
If and when I begin outside sales and untill I become certified, I will claim (naturaly grown) or some such. Would that be deceptive?
I don't need to go into attack mode untill there is no distinction between the two.
Make sense?

In Australia, the usual time it takes to obtain certification as a producer of organic food is three years, during which time inputs and products are monitored. After certification, you can display the certifying organisation's logo. Each year, there is a further assessment costing about $600. The certifier can also check products at any time. More information can be found on websites, such as:
http://www.ogawa.org.au/certification.html

A current list of organisations accredited by the Australian government agency AQIS to carry out organic certification can be obtained by emailing pr@aqis.gov.au

Hope this helps.
Adrian