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Airlift/Geyser pumps
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=945		 Page 1 of 11
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 20th, '06, 07:55 ]
Post subject:  Airlift/Geyser pumps
Airlift/Geyser pumps

Seeing that I have hijacked 2 different threads talking about this, thought it would be a good idea to put it in its own category.

My original thought was to develop a suction pump to clean out sunken tanks without too much effort – the 1st test was trialling an air lift pump as per pic1; this has benefits to AP (as AM has shown) but researching further I came across a comparison air lift to geyser pump which stated air lift is good – “Geyser” is better. :rr:

Test 1 using 2.6lpm pump – could raise water just above water level but would require a lot more air to suck dirt from the bottom of a tank (see pic 1).

Test 2 using geyser principle (and 2.6lpm pump) able to raise water ~ 150mm above tank level in spurts every second (fun to watch). :toothy10:

The geyser pump works the same as the auto siphon (but in reverse) – more detail here *Geyser pump*

Pic2 is the pump parts to geyser:
40mm & 25mm end caps have been fitted with 10mm connectors (item 1 & 3)
Short piece of 10mm is fitted to 25mm end cap and a slot cut out, this is to allow the air to push into 10mm pipe.
25mm pipe (item 4) is fitted to end cap and then 10mm pipe end is connecter to 40mm end cap (item 1)
40mm pipe (item 2) is fitted over the lot and the air tube was jammed in temporarily

Pic 3 is the assembled pump

Modifications/Improvements
Bigger air pump
Larger pipe sizes

These types of pumps can easily be adapted to AP as a standalone pump or as a cheap power fail backup system, further testing is required me thinks :twisted:

Attachments:
File comment: The start of this...........
Gravel Cleaner.jpg
Gravel Cleaner.jpg [ 78.9 KiB | Viewed 13123 times ]
File comment: All the bits for the pump
Geyser pump bits.jpg
Geyser pump bits.jpg [ 85.4 KiB | Viewed 13122 times ]
File comment: The working model
Geyser pump assembled.jpg
Geyser pump assembled.jpg [ 80.81 KiB | Viewed 13129 times ]
Author:  Jaymie [ Dec 20th, '06, 07:58 ]
Post subject: 
now you need to show it in action Les
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 20th, '06, 08:27 ]
Post subject: 
Need to cut the pipe length shorter - was watching it spurt up the tube (small things amuse "mature" minds :lol: )
Author:  janethesselberth [ Dec 20th, '06, 08:42 ]
Post subject: 
Neato!! That's just what I thought the diagram was showing. Now, hmmmm... how can I use that for the benefit of fish-kind??? :twisted:
Author:  janethesselberth [ Dec 20th, '06, 08:43 ]
Post subject: 
It would be interesting to see how lengthening the barrel of the Geyser pump affects volume. Also, I wonder how changing relative diameters affects it.
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 20th, '06, 08:49 ]
Post subject: 
For you J, damn near need to be ambidextrous - hold pipe off bottom and click shutter when spurt arrives (a lesser person would have panicked or fallen in the tank :bigsmurf: )

Attachments:
File comment: Say no more
Geyser.jpg
Geyser.jpg [ 139.96 KiB | Viewed 13107 times ]
Author:  Dave Donley [ Dec 20th, '06, 09:25 ]
Post subject: 
Great work, more useful tech from Ell's AP Research Lab!
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 20th, '06, 15:44 ]
Post subject: 
janetpelletier wrote:
It would be interesting to see how lengthening the barrel of the Geyser pump affects volume. Also, I wonder how changing relative diameters affects it.


Lengthening the barrel will mean more air trapped then released but I don't think it would increase the amount of water volume - that would be regulated by the water in the tube, increasing the size of pipe will increase water volume.

Increasing air volume will shorten the cycle time between "eruptions" but if too much air pressure then water won't have time to refill the tube before next "eruption" - that's how I see it working (as Greenedo said - auto siphon in reverse).

For a suction pump, I was looking at 1" main pipe (also more rigid) with 1-1/2" and 2-1/2" pipes for cylinder barrels and then fiddle with air.
Author:  janethesselberth [ Dec 20th, '06, 20:39 ]
Post subject: 
I would think increasing air volume would lengthen the cycle time. That air volume must build up and higher volume takes longer. I agree that the amount of water moved is dependent on the length (volume) of the riser tube. As I think about it, the volume of air only has to be sufficient to create a 'plug' in the tube. Trapping and releasing more air doesn't really buy anything.

How noisy is this contraption when it runs? Obviously there is the sound of the air pump, but how loud (obnoxious) are the erruptions?
Author:  janethesselberth [ Dec 21st, '06, 04:54 ]
Post subject: 
Hey 'Ell, Your jury-rigging made me realize something. The original design has air coming in from the top of the outer bell housing. You just jammed the air line in to the bottom opening of the outer bell. The original design won't do anything for aeration, but yours probably starts to. Air bubbles up through water to reach the top of the outer bell. Maybe if the outer bell extended below the inner bell, the air line and an airstone could be permanently mounted so as to aerate within the Geyser pump. Then you really do get two functions from one device.
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 21st, '06, 06:36 ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I would think increasing air volume would lengthen the cycle time


Think we are talking on 2 separate planes, I was referring to the volume increase from the pump not the volume stored in the barrel - so we are saying the same thing (differently :roll: ).

Quote:
the air line and an airstone could be permanently mounted so as to aerate within the Geyser pump.


Very good point - I had thought of extending the bell housing and adding "crenellations" (YES!) so that using it as a suction pump it would work more effectively and keep fish away from being sucked up, love the idea of putting a stone underneath as well.

Noise - no extra noise involved, the air is rising at a rate that it normally would in water, only difference is that water is being pushed up in front of it, so there is a “splash” noise when the water returns to the tank, it’s not really like a big gush & gurgle, just an outpouring of water.
Author:  janethesselberth [ Dec 21st, '06, 08:04 ]
Post subject: 
Agreed, we were saying the same thing in opposite ways. Good.

Ooooo. I must build one. I think I'm going to try a 4 inch (100mm) outer bell, 1.5 inch (40mm) inner bell, and 1 inch (25 mm) semi-rigid riser. I was thinking about alternating horizontal cuts instead of crenellations, but either would work for use to fill a grow bed. Crenellations would be better for suction pump, but don't make them too deep, I think. The other important thing I learned from reviewing the geyser pump website is that if you reduce the diameter of the riser at the water line, you can increase head. Hmmm. If I can get 1.5 feet off the water's surface, I can use it in the "Tilapia Love Shack" I need to build.

I saw an inexpensive oscillating sprinker today. Almost bought it. :twisted:
Author:  EllKayBee [ Dec 21st, '06, 10:12 ]
Post subject: 
There would be a height that the air would push past the water and escape (or the water becomes too heavy for the air to keep pushing up the pipe and fall back to the tank), when I was "playing" I held the pipe up vertical, higher than the water could be pushed out the top and this is what seemed to be happening.

An alternative could be to combine the spiral pump with the geyser and see if that would increase the head height, that would mean the water spins (or oscillates) like a sprinkler :shock:

Would that count as an oscillating sprinkler or a bit far fetched :twisted:

ps have obtained necessary ingredients to cook a larger sized pump (25/40/65mm bits) - just need more air :rr:
Author:  janethesselberth [ Dec 21st, '06, 10:23 ]
Post subject: 
I can see that there is some theoretical maximum height, but all I need is 1.5feet (450mm) up from the surface of the water. I don't quite understand how to combine the sprial and geyser, but if it can be done, I'm sure you will.

I just placed an order for a decent air pump and some bits and pieces. There's a discount aquarium supplier not far from here. Now all I need is a trip to the local mega-hardware store for 4-inch PVC and some endcaps.

I shall just have to cut apart an oscillating sprinkler myself, I see. Well, I have Christmas week off, and a spare pump to play with. We will see what happens. Probably my sunroom will flood. :shock:
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Dec 21st, '06, 10:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Airlift/Geyser pumps
Quote:
I shall just have to cut apart an oscillating sprinkler myself


I can hear EKB wrapping the chainsaw up already... loves the sound of a two-stroke in the morning and the smell of petrol does our EKB...

could have a chrissie present coming your way Janet, if you keep stroking him .... LOL
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