Anyone know where there's a basic, cheap 2009 Porche 911 Carrera... something with full computerised traction control, that can be custom turbo'd... would be nice...
| Backyard Aquaponics http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/ |
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| Automated detection and monitoring http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7381 |
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| Author: | Redman [ Apr 26th, '10, 14:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Automated detection and monitoring |
Are there any basic (and cheap) electronic detectors that can monitor nutrients and acidity? Something that could be plugged into a computer and custom software would be nice. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Apr 26th, '10, 17:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
| Anyone know where there's a basic, cheap 2009 Porche 911 Carrera... something with full computerised traction control, that can be custom turbo'd... would be nice...
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| Author: | DragonC [ Apr 26th, '10, 17:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
This is something I've been looking into... there is just one problem. This is well into the realm of Laboratory Equipment, and as a result it's EXPENSIVE. No, wait. What I mean to say is SERIOUSLY EXPENSIVE. We're talking thousands of pounds (GBP). There is a small PH detectors already available ( http://www.spectronic.co.uk/electrochem ... s/3505.htm ), but when you start talking Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates we start getting into £2,200 just for one, and about £8,000 for a complete system. Whilst it would be nice, it's just not going to happen for a Backyard setup. Heck, I suspect even commercial systems would still consider this a major investment. I've already asked a few companies here in the UK about this. Some have expressed an interest in getting together a specific package for aquaponics, but at present it's still waaaay to expensive. These are some of the companies I have approached: http://www.progensci.co.uk http://www.rhysinternational.co.uk/ http://www.spectronic.co.uk |
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| Author: | Dufflight [ Apr 26th, '10, 19:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
But why the need for that kind of testing. I tested my system a couple of months ago  or was it more than that. Better to use the time and money in making the system more balanced so you don't need the monitoring.
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| Author: | DragonC [ Apr 26th, '10, 19:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Well I looked into it, for a commercial setup. Although it might be worth it in the long run for a large installation, in the meantime, I'm going to stick to normal monitoring. |
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| Author: | DexterK [ Apr 26th, '10, 19:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
I reckon I tested every day when I first got my test kit. I had to dose with fertiliser to cycle the system at the start and I googled all sorts of monitoring set ups. I've had my first fish in for 2 weeks now and I've only done 1 test. That was mostly to let my 5 year old have a turn so he can take the results to school tomorrow for show and tell. I was told by a few people (of various AP experience) that I'd get over the need to test all the time and I have. I'm glad I didn't spend a fortune on monitors first. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Apr 26th, '10, 21:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Regular testing is required while cycling... other than that, only when you notice,smell or sense something is'nt quite right with your water of fish behaviour.... In a new system... after cycling... testing at least once a fortnight is probably a good thing, as pH can drop quite rapidly as the system matures... indeed it may do so inside of a week. |
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| Author: | caribis [ Apr 27th, '10, 00:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
I work (don't know how long as we were sold this morning) for a company that makes sensors for blood testing including pH. While some of our medical sensors measure analytes useful for aquaponics, they are meant for a cocktail of analytes and what you need for aquaponics either is missing something or is way out of range of the sensors. For example our pH doesn't go above 8 and it needs a pCO2 that would kill fish just to measure the pH without error. My research into automated sensors for aquaponics has led me to the conclusion that the sensors we would need are being manufactured for water treatment systems and as a lesser market hydroponics, but the big ones that cover hundreds of acres. Needless to say the scale of these customers translates into sensors that are thousands of dollars. However, even if you had the cash, or found a company that wanted to target aquaponics, you would still need to have a QA program. So instead of testing your water you would be testing your sensors on a regular basis. And the QA reagent business is probably more lucrative than the sensor business. Whether a medical application or a fish tank, you are using a scientific instrument and it needs to remain in calibration. That means regular testing. |
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| Author: | Redman [ Apr 27th, '10, 01:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Strange, testing for a particular chemical or a range is relatively easy. Shine a light through the water at a given frequency and if it fluoresces then its there. The intensity determines how much. Its the same as the reagent - colour charts only its done using light frequency. PH is electrical conductivity temp is easy, already have a list of parts for that. I guess I have to build this myself.. |
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| Author: | Dufflight [ Apr 27th, '10, 06:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Redman wrote: PH is electrical conductivity Having fine solids and other elements in the water may play with this kind of testing. If you do a search of the forum you may fine a few threads on automation and monitoring. |
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| Author: | DragonC [ Apr 27th, '10, 07:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Redman wrote: Strange, testing for a particular chemical or a range is relatively easy. Shine a light through the water at a given frequency and if it fluoresces then its there. The intensity determines how much. Its the same as the reagent - colour charts only its done using light frequency. PH is electrical conductivity There speaks somebody with no idea of the kind of physics needed. It's certainly not as easy as you make out. Chemical reactants (standard water testing kits) are easy to do. Spectral analysis is not. And certainly not for totally automated tests which is what we started out discussing. Quote: I guess I have to build this myself.. You do that. I think you'll be surprised. Lets just put this to bed once and for all. The costs necessary for automated testing put it well outside the normal backyard aquaponicsist. In fact it puts it well outside the range of all existing commercial aquaponics setups. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Apr 27th, '10, 09:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Yep, even hand held datalogging devices with a simple RS232 download link are so pricey that for the amount of use it's really hard to justify the cost.... If you're talking wireless realtime datalogging... then it would be cheaper to just go and buy fish & chips everyday.... actually, you could probably hire a full time chef and get them to cook fish & chips everyday....
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| Author: | Redman [ Apr 27th, '10, 22:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
DragonC wrote: Redman wrote: Strange, testing for a particular chemical or a range is relatively easy. Shine a light through the water at a given frequency and if it fluoresces then its there. The intensity determines how much. Its the same as the reagent - colour charts only its done using light frequency. PH is electrical conductivity There speaks somebody with no idea of the kind of physics needed. It's certainly not as easy as you make out. Chemical reactants (standard water testing kits) are easy to do. Spectral analysis is not. And certainly not for totally automated tests which is what we started out discussing. Quote: I guess I have to build this myself.. You do that. I think you'll be surprised. Lets just put this to bed once and for all. The costs necessary for automated testing put it well outside the normal backyard aquaponicsist. In fact it puts it well outside the range of all existing commercial aquaponics setups. Thanks for the insults. And maybe some of us want to go away sometimes.. Using a computer and a bit of programming its possible to produce a sequence of timed samples using electronics and semi robotics. As for light spectroscopy the same could be achieved though how you would do this automatically I know not. I do know that there are units out there that sample gases so I could deduce that making steam from a sample and testing the gas is a long way but functional way of achieving that result. There are chips for sale on the market to test PH and monitor it and there are others for testing temp and logging it. You can also purchase ARM chips (that go in mobile phones) from Motorola as a kit setup ($200) and these simply plug into a USB com link. So I can only assume that someone somewhere makes the gas spectroscopy sampling units and these can be found somewhere. If so then it takes a little bit of Java or C and some nouse to come up with a fully automated unit using a netbook as the brain. / So if anyone knows where gas or sampled water spectroscopy units can be sourced, the same ones used by companies all over the world for monitoring products, by products, pollutants etc that would be nice. Thanks again for input. |
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| Author: | desertrat [ Apr 27th, '10, 22:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
Inventing the "more complex" is easy simplicity is better |
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| Author: | Redman [ Apr 27th, '10, 22:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Automated detection and monitoring |
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/produc ... ts_id=8627 |
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