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Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4659		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  hygicell [ Dec 21st, '08, 00:06 ]
Post subject:  Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
mylesau wrote:
Mentioned this one some time back and was told how bad it was - times are changing:
Jebao 3000 sweet spot:
2,100 l/h @ 1m @ 35 Watts ~ 16.67% efficient
I don't know what it is with these particular pumps but even strapping a couple together (at the sweet spot ~ 1m) seems to outperform most larger pumps?
mylesau wrote:
Actually the sweet spot is 1.5m not 1.0m:
1,700 l/h @ 1.5m @ 35 Watts ~ 20.24% efficient

This is where I wanted to go with the calculator
and the "sweet spot" is a marvelous idea
I will try to have it highlighted automatically in the next version of the calculator
so the best application of a particular pump becomes obvious

so sincere thanks, Mylesau :flower:

next step is to gather more info:
not only the good results, the bad ones too
within the whole range of the pump
copy and paste from the calculator to the forum works fine

links to the data origins are TMHO essential
and pump prices
so please post them whenever available
I will add a new column for pump price

the remark on strapping several small pumps together for achieving as high a volume as a bigger pump
is good news too and doesn't surprise me:
I have systematically applied this when I was building central high pressure systems for the food industry
when I realized that two (or more) small pumps were:
cheaper than one big one
just as reliable
spare parts are off the shelf
spare parts are MUCH cheaper

having more small pumps compared to one big one make a system :
more reliable
and power consumption adaptable to the real needs

lastly: looks like we have a new winner for 2008's best choice

so thanks again, Mylesau :flower: :flower:

frank
Author:  Bridgette [ Dec 21st, '08, 05:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
those Aldi pumps which got some airplay here on the forum before go onsale the 26th of December for 99 dollars - 1000watts
Author:  Sleepe [ Dec 21st, '08, 05:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Johnny

Unfortunately they don't seem to give much in the way of detail.
Without looking at efficiency for the moment or knowing the requirements of your system there are a few things to look for.
I prefer vortex impellers, they seem to handle soft solids better and require less maintenance. Ceramic shaft and bearings as they last. Decent sized cord, unless you are very good at doing waterproof joins. Lastly what warrantee will you get :)

Mildly curious Frank, European standard voltage is 220v 50hz(excluding the UK) OZ voltage is 240-250v 50hz. How are you calculating the watts? (not being funny just wondered if you'd allowed for it)
Author:  Sleepe [ Dec 21st, '08, 06:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Johnny

This site seems to have a fair range of decent pumps http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/pu ... _pumps.htm

Frank
Sorry about the last question :( , I take it you accept what the manufacturer states. I'm having a non-thinking morning :) .
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Dec 21st, '08, 11:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
I've posted before about the Laguna 11000 pump that I bought and I don't understand how you are calculating the efficiency figures but when I compared the rock around the block figures that Frank posted I still get the Laguna 11000 coming out on top.

I can do the % figury whats its if someone explains them to me but comparing L/W at all of the heads height that were posted the laguna beats the Rock A T B pump.


RATB @.5m 60 L/W v. Laguna @ .6m 81.6 L/W.
RATB @1m 48 L/W v. Laguna @ 1.2m 75.8 L/W.
RATB @ 1.5m 36L/W v. Laguna @ 1.5m 73 L/W.

Is W/L a means of comparison? If the % thingy is better I'll start using it, one I know how.
Author:  Outbackozzie [ Dec 21st, '08, 13:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
I always talk about the RATB ones because I can never find the laguna link quickly :D
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Dec 21st, '08, 14:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Outbackozzie wrote:
I always talk about the RATB ones because I can never find the laguna link quickly :D


:lol: LOL What would frank say about your complete disregard for efficiency?
Author:  hygicell [ Dec 21st, '08, 15:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Sleepe wrote:
Frank Sorry about the last question :( , I take it you accept what the manufacturer states. I'm having a non-thinking morning :) .

I have to calculate the watts
only for 12/24 V mumps, where mostly the Amps are given as reference

frank
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Dec 29th, '13, 05:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Having sung the praises of Laguna pumps for years I am not going to stop doing so just yet but....

The range of pumps produced by Aquanova are pretty impressive.

One of the reasons I liked the Laguna pumps was compared to other pumps that were available to us the Laguna pumps were some of the most efficient (30-45% efficient at the sweet spot (2-3.7m TDH).

The Aquanova pumps match and in many cases exceed this. Efficiencies range from 40% at ~2.5mTDH to 65% at 3.7 to 5m TDH. The extra efficiency at higher TDH is only useful if you have a system that needs a higher TDH but the NCM 10000 (~equivilent to the Laguna 11000) is 49% efficient at a TDH of 2.1m where the Laguna is only 31%.

In other words at the Laguna 11000s sweetspot (maximum efficiency) of 2.1m TDH, 31% efficiency and ~7000L/hr flow is being produced with a rated power draw of 125w (actual draw would be less than this).

Where as the Aqua Nova NCM 10000 is at a 2.1m TDH 49% efficient and producing a flow of ~7350L/hr with a rated power draw of 85w (actual draw would be less than this).

So based on performance data supplied by the manufacturers the Aqua nova range are producing more with less.

Having said that I have never used one of these pumps. The seller Rock Around the Block assures me they are reliable and has them for sale at $189. Whereas the Laguna 11000 is available from Creative Pumps at $365.

This is the biggest visible difference between the two. The Laguna is made in Italy while the Aqua Nova is made in China.

Anyone want to volunteer to test one?


http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/po ... s.html?p=2
http://www.creativepumps.com.au/zpumps/ ... rpumps.htm
Author:  PLJ [ Dec 29th, '13, 06:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Stuart, I think you will find that Aquanova pumps are just rebadged Jebao pumps that are already used by many of us.
Author:  Sleepe [ Dec 29th, '13, 07:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Not sure that they are PLJ, may be made in the same place but I suspect the impeller design may be different (? copy of an Oase). I was looking at them a while back but I can't seem to get the pump head curve. :)
Author:  PLJ [ Dec 29th, '13, 09:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
I've seen the claim at a few sites, including where I bought two 10,000L Jebao pumps. I refer you to the statement at the bottom of the page in blue text.

The newer 10,000L Jebao pumps use only 85W compared to 120W of the above pumps.
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Dec 29th, '13, 11:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Last time I looked at jeboa pumps they didn't cut it but after doing a quick search they have really expanded their range.

The problem is I can not find much information on them. Particularly pump curves. Bit hard to compare them with that information.

I don't think the Aquanovas are a straight rebadge because what stats I can find on one or two of the Jeboa pumps don't match any of the Aquanova pumps.
Author:  earthbound [ Dec 29th, '13, 12:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Also, don't believe the badges... Our pumps are supposed to be 65W but when someone tested their consumption, they said it was about half that much.. I think it may have been Bunson.. :?
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Dec 29th, '13, 12:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Pumps - good ones and bad ones.
Electric motors don't necessarily use their rated power. The rated power represents the maximum draw under load. When you turn them on they use a lot more and then they use whatever is required of them to do the job being asked of them.

Weirdly it is often the case that at lower TDH they use more power than at higher TDH. Industrial pumps have a separate curve on the pump curve graph that shows power usage relative to flow and TDH. One of the pumps I was looking at had a 5kW motor but when in use would only draw 2.8kW. If we had disconnected it from the pipe network and just had it spewing water out of its outlet then it would draw close to 5kW.
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