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Food Safe Plastics
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25074		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  creamcheeNchive [ May 16th, '15, 02:00 ]
Post subject:  Food Safe Plastics
I have been doing a good amount of research lately into common materials and their food safety. I think this is a very important topic. Are there major resource compilations that I am missing?

General Resources:
http://www.plasticsintl.com/food_compli ... rials.html

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/f ... ayAll=true

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PLUMBING
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PVC- Polyvinyl Chloride. This seem like a big one, as most people plumb at least some part of their system using PVC. However, it is my understanding that a lot of standard farm irrigation also uses this. I have not researched this much.

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FOAM FILTER MEDIA
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1. ////////////////////////////////////////////////
Pentair AES Reticulated Foam #PF7
http://pentairaes.com/filter-foam-reticulated.html
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Material: Polyurethane http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurethane
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MSDS: http://lghttp.29106.nexcesscdn.net/80C1 ... -Sheet.pdf
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Food Safe: No
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Common Problems: Polycarbonates can leach iso cyanates
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Vendor Response:
On May 6, 2015, at 11:36 AM, "Anderson, Sydney" <Sydney.Anderson@Pentair.com> wrote:
I apologize for the delay I had sent the question off to someone and thought they had gotten back with you. The polyurethane is not food grade material.

Thank you,

Sydney Anderson
Customer Service Technician

Pentair Aquatic Eco-Systems
2395 Apopka Blvd
Apopka, FL, 32703, USA
Office 1.407.992.5595
Fax 1.407.886.4884
Sydney.Anderson@Pentair.com

www.pentairAES.com

facebook | twitter | instagram | youtube | LinkedIn

Our next Recirculating Aquaculture Systems (RAS) Technology Workshop will be held June 10th-12th, 2015. To sign up or for more information click here.

On Apr 27, 2015, at 11:10 AM, "Anderson, Sydney" <Sydney.Anderson@Pentair.com> wrote:

Can you please provide me with a part number?

Thank you,

Sydney Anderson
Customer Service Technician

Pentair Aquatic Eco-Systems
2395 Apopka Blvd
Apopka, FL, 32703, USA
Fax 1.407.886.4884
Sydney.Anderson@Pentair.com

www.pentairAES.com

facebook | twitter | instagram | youtube | LinkedIn

Our next Recirculating Aquaculture Systems (RAS) Technology Workshop will be held June 10th-12th, 2015. To sign up or for more information click here.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pentair Aquatic Eco-Systems Customer Support [mailto:PAES.General@Pentair.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 11:27 PM
To: !DL PAES Web Support
Subject: Contact Form

Is tha filter foam, reticulated food safe? What plastic is it made out of?
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Links:
http://www.separationsnow.com/details/e ... ducts.html

2. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Matala Filter Media

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Material:
Polyethylene http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene
Polypropylene http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene
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MSDS: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B82_sqk ... cslist_api
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Food Safe: Yes
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Common Problems:
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Vendor Response:

On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Matala Info <info@matalausa.com> wrote:

Matala is a blend of polyethylene and polypropylene.
It is food safe.

kind regards,
Ben Plonski
Matala USA

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:46 PM, :

Thank you. Do you know if this is HDPE or LDPE? I am trying to discern whether or not the material is food safe. I would like to use it as media for an aquaponic bed, and my plants would be rooting in the matala.

Thanks,

Evan

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 27, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Matala Info <info@matalausa.com> wrote:

Hello Evan,
Here is MSDS for Matala media.

Kind regards,
Ben Plonski
Matala USA

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 11:45 AM
To: Matala Info
Subject: Website Form Comments

Comments: Do you have an msds for the filter media?

vercode: 27802

---------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using your Web Contact Form
---------------------------------------------------------
<MSDS SHEET for Matala media.pdf>

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Links:

3. ////////////////////////////////////////////////
Styrofoam (r) Polystyrene Foam Board (Dow)
This is the blue board, as the pink board has insect repellant
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLite ... age=GetDoc
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Material: Polystyrene (basically) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styrene- ... rile_resin
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MSDS: http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.t ... 20MSDS.pdf
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Food Safe: Not confirmed, but likely
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Common Problems:
1. There is supposedly a flame retardant included in the material, but I do not specifically see it in the MSDS
2. May leach tetrafluouroethane. In very large quantities this has caused reproductive issues in animal testing, although it is also used as the propellant in inhalers. I believe it is FDA approved as food safe in certain instances.
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Vendor Response:

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Links:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/f ... ayAll=true

http://www.fda.gov/ucm/groups/fdagov-pu ... 258376.pdf
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ May 16th, '15, 07:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
There are so many variables and whether something is rated as food grade or not is a regulatory thing rather than a particular material being safe or not. There can be a significant difference between "food grade" and "food safe".

For example there are many food grade polyurethane products but to get this rating costs money so many manufacturers don't bother. Which is not to say that all polyurethane products are food safe just that they could be even though they are not food grade.

A counter example is many flexible PVC products are food grade but in my opinion are not food safe due to the chemicals that make the PVC flexible leaching out over time.

Rigid PVC is generally food safe but has a rather large, detrimental and toxic environmental foot print. Even though the finished product is safe the by products of the manufacturing process and the disposal process (either landfill or other) are kind of nasty.

I'm following the EU example and going HDPE for my plumbing where possible and either Bitumen or EPDM for liners.
Author:  creamcheeNchive [ May 16th, '15, 08:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
I agree. I am no chemical engineer or materials scientist, and it's very difficult to discern whether or not certain things should be used. Exactly like you said, there are just so many variables.

I guess I am only presenting what I have researched recently, and hoping to find any trusted sources where information has been compiled, because it all seems so scattered. I think part of the real problem is that people just don't really know. I mean look at the big BPA scare over the past few years when polycarbonate bottles became so popular.

What are the key resources? Has anyone started compiling this type of information for aquaponics?
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ May 16th, '15, 11:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
creamcheeNchive wrote:
II think part of the real problem is that people just don't really know. I mean look at the big BPA scare over the past few years when polycarbonate bottles became so popular.

BPA is just one thing there are many. I've been talking about this for years because I was aware of some of the preliminary research on how these chemicals move out of the materials in which they are contained. There was some even more preliminary data on the possible adverse health effects so I did what I could to stay well clear of them.

Quote:
What are the key resources? Has anyone started compiling this type of information for aquaponics?


I've posted a bunch of stuff on the forum over the years but most of it is contained in journals which I can't link to.

A relatively recent book that came out that deals with a lot of this stuff is "Slow death by Rubber Duck".

http://www.amazon.com/Slow-Death-Rubber-Duck-Everyday/dp/1582437025
Author:  creamcheeNchive [ May 16th, '15, 11:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Is there scientific data presented in the book, or is it just a generic commentary?
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ May 16th, '15, 11:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Fair bit of both.
Author:  creamcheeNchive [ May 16th, '15, 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Man I did some searching on your post history and couldn't find any data posted anywhere from journals. Could you help me out?

I feel like I have presented some fairly useful information, albeit in a very small quantity for the time being, but what I'm suggesting is that we start a sticky or something where we can start to compile this information since it does seem to be of concern. Questions seem to get asked somewhat often, and the same speculation seems to be repeated each time.

Thoughts?
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ May 17th, '15, 03:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Not really. I remember posting stuff years ago when I was doing my own research. Its not a focus for me at the moment because its an issue I've settled in my mind. At least for now.
Author:  Plachon [ Aug 1st, '15, 15:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Stuart Chignell wrote:

Rigid PVC is generally food safe but has a rather large, detrimental and toxic environmental foot print. Even though the finished product is safe the by products of the manufacturing process and the disposal process (either landfill or other) are kind of nasty.



When I researched PVC, there ppl calling for it to be banned, due to the manufacturing and disposal processes. I couldn't find any clear evidence of PVC liners being dangerous for foods, but there was concern due to the softening agents, which can include lead.

PVC pipe is the only stuff available for me. I am planning on using some liner in beds, but still have concerns. I've considered having the fish tested for heavy metals.

As I understand it, food safe for vegetables and fish are very different, so what may be safe in hydro, may not be safe in AP. I bought the PVC liner from the factory, they assured me it was food safe, but I'm sure they had no idea what they were talking about.

This is an important issue, I see some members using cheap black plastics in their systems, which may be harmful.
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Aug 1st, '15, 18:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
PVC liners and flexible PVC in general in Australia are declared "food safe" and certified for potable water use. That is a fact.

Are they actually suitable for potable water and are they food safe? Well according to the EU no. So according to the EU they not food safe or suitable for potable water.

The reason why is all the plasticizers that make the PVC flexible and that over time they leach out of the PVC.
Author:  Sleepe [ Aug 1st, '15, 19:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Just as an aside; they had to put a cut through the old landfill site (new road). Rather surprisingly plastic bags were intact and seemed to be relatively undamaged (still flexible). This had to be left for a number of months to settle in summer. By the time it was to put a layer of brick rubble over it they had disintegrated.
If they had leached, we are talking min 25 years, they should have been *frack*.
HDPE IBC bladders. I occasionally have to ? on them; tread warily as they can give you a nasty surprise.

Anyway have fun with the discussion and remember not to allow plastics into your house. :)
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Aug 1st, '15, 19:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Sleepe wrote:
Just as an aside; they had to put a cut through the old landfill site (new road). Rather surprisingly plastic bags were intact and seemed to be relatively undamaged (still flexible). This had to be left for a number of months to settle in summer. By the time it was to put a layer of brick rubble over it they had disintegrated.
If they had leached, we are talking min 25 years, they should have been *frack*.
HDPE IBC bladders. I occasionally have to ? on them; tread warily as they can give you a nasty surprise.

Anyway have fun with the discussion and remember not to allow plastics into your house. :)


The vast majority of plastic bags are HDPE.
Author:  Sleepe [ Aug 3rd, '15, 16:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
I apologise, Stuart :oops:
Yes HDPE LDPE Polyester etc. Lot of other crap in that cut.

Pissed at that time but unless you put good fillers into HDPE it degrades in the open. This is not a guess, I have had it collapse under me quite a few times.
C'est la vie. :)
Author:  Stuart Chignell [ Aug 4th, '15, 06:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
Yeah but the fillers don't tend to migrate out of the PE and even if they did they are not as dangerous as PVC plasticisers since the main one is carbon after all.
Author:  mwdesign [ Aug 5th, '15, 19:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Food Safe Plastics
I just saw this movie on Netflix the other night "the Human Experiment". Makes you really think about this!
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