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| Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17102 |
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| Author: | Janna [ Jun 25th, '13, 16:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Almost certainly I am not the first to ask this, but a forum search gives me so much info that I couldn't find what I would like to learn.... In the IBC of AP I saw them using the flexible ribbed black hose for pumping the water. Would there be any health concerns with that (e.g. leaching of plasticizers) compared to rigid pvc drain pipes? Is it food safe? The flexible hose is available in good diameters, not expensive and looks practical. Hope you can point me towards the good info. Thanks. |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Jun 25th, '13, 17:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
I've found a lot of the ribbed hose is often not that UV stabilised.... and cracks/breaks down rapidly..... |
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| Author: | Janna [ Jun 26th, '13, 02:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Thank you, Rupert. I wouldn't have expected that (as it is sold for ponds, which are usually outside and in the open), so is good to know. I'll make sure to only use it inside the garage or greenhouse then. If at all. |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 26th, '13, 04:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Because it is a polyethylene product I don't think it is UV that destroys them but rather mechanical failure. Pipes that I had exposed in the sun were fine except where they moved. Many sections of pipe were more exposed in areas where they were secure and where they were prone to movement they were shaded in some cases fully shaded. Despite this they failed where they flexed. The material I used was 100mm unslotted ag drain. |
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| Author: | Jake [ Jun 26th, '13, 05:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
The ag drain is a different material than the pond hose. What I've read is that it takes a few years to break down. So it could be a good medium-term solution if you're still experimenting. I've had mine for ~8 months in direct sun with no noticeable problems, but I do expect it to eventually present a problem unless replaced with PVC. On the flip side, I just added a radial flow filter a couple days ago and had to redo all my plumbing, which took only minutes with the hose and would have been far more of a hassle with glued PVC. |
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| Author: | Charlie [ Jun 26th, '13, 06:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
I used the flexi 'non-kink' hose for a couple of years and it worked ok. Until you had to move it... and it split quite easily. It becomes hard and brittle in time. |
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| Author: | bioaquafarm [ Jun 26th, '13, 07:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Any LDPE, MDPE, PVC are of low quality and not as safe compared to U-PVC, PVC-C or ABS. (if cost are not an issue and you place health and safety on top of the list! ) I personally only utilise U-PVC for the following reason plus it gives me great flexibility in my custom installation: -metric or imperial, rigid or flexible, threaded or solvent weld -temp range 0-60 celsius) -Resistance to acids, bases and salt solutions. -Free from lead, cadmium or other poisonous heavy metals -Suitable in potable water system and WRAS approved I like to use my time wisely and by selecting the best material I can save time on arising issue that might develop later. |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 26th, '13, 07:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
bioaquafarm wrote: Any LDPE, MDPE, PVC are of low quality and not as safe compared to U-PVC, PVC-C or ABS. (if cost are not an issue and you place health and safety on top of the list! ) What is your basis for saying the LDPE is not safe? I haven't heard of any health concerns for PE whether it be LDPE, MDPE or HDPE other than the fact that it is a plastic but nothing that has been documented on a scientific basis. Regular non flexible PVC is safe but the environmental costs of making it and disposing of it are relatively massive compared to PE (which is almost fully recyclable). I don't know but I think that U-PVC, PVC-C have the same problems as regular PVC. Don't know what ABS is. |
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| Author: | bioaquafarm [ Jun 26th, '13, 16:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Stuart I've spent several months researching about plastics and polymers, based on those research what I've concluded that any of the LD/MDPE or common PVC when exposed to direct sunlight and high temp they leach phthalates, this is an ingredient not used to produce u-PVC, PVC-c or ABS plastics. Do you know why the blue MDPE pipe are design to be use specifically underground, or why PP water tanks are stored only underground. Why do you think windows frames are made of U-PVC? Why common PVC is only use for waste water system? U-PVC pipes will not degrade and crack like PP therefore landfill is minimised and recycling not needed! After all even recycling takes a load of resources/energy too! BUILD ONCE ENJOY TWICE! if you get the sense of it! I think when you outweigh the pros and cons it really leave me with no option, IMO you only use PVC if you are on budget. Out of curiosity, can you please quantify the massive cost differential of the two production methods? |
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| Author: | bioaquafarm [ Jun 26th, '13, 16:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
And forgot to mention, WRAS is a certification that the material can handle potable drinking water, PVC does not have such approval! They will surely help you and answer your concern about safety or hazardous material! |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Jun 26th, '13, 17:52 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Better make sure that you don't use that "cling wrap" stuff to cover your organic products in your market stalls then.... It could be either PVC... or LDPE.... and very probably has phthalates....  Looks like you're going to be limited to U-PVC... or ABS containers.... 
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| Author: | bioaquafarm [ Jun 26th, '13, 18:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Veg in a container is something you buy from supermarkets, not from us, we only use BROWN paper bag. The only PET container is mainly for portion control (and kept in shade for a reason) when people buy them we place in a brown bag, the ties around radishes are not in direct contact with the edible part and can be reused (by definition more eco-friendly than recycle) and as far as I'm aware we are; THE FIRST AND ONLY AQUAPONIC HOBBYFARM TO SELL LIVE SALAD AT FARMERS MAKET WORLDWIDE! please correct me if I'm wrong! Because we have a methodology and ethical mentality we would avoid using and minimise the amount of any hazardous material/chemical, less natural resources and non renewable energy. You probably must have heard about zero waste methods and integrated farming! Like I said before ....I'm here to make a difference! and you can bet I will! |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Jun 26th, '13, 19:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Was just having a little dig Bioaqua.... bioaquafarm wrote: You probably must have heard about zero waste methods and integrated farming! Most certainly have... and I'm delighted to hear that you are pursuing things from a best practice perspective... bioaqufarm wrote: THE FIRST AND ONLY AQUAPONIC HOBBYFARM TO SELL LIVE SALAD AT FARMERS MAKET WORLDWIDE! please correct me if I'm wrong! Umm.... what have the rest of them been selling at the farmers markets then????? |
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| Author: | Janna [ Jun 26th, '13, 19:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
Quote: Umm.... what have the rest of them been selling at the farmers markets then????? Harvested salads, I suppose. Anyway, thank you all for commenting on the hose/pipe questions (to gently bring this back on topic). It seems as though opinions vary, but rigid pvc (preferably drinking water safe and UV stabliized) is the way to go for long term, durable solutions. I might go for the hose solution short-term, for ease of installation. When I have figured out my final build/design, I can replace with a rigid solution. There doesn't seem to be a risk of my or my fish falling over dead when I use the black ribbed hose initially. Thanks again, all. |
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| Author: | bioaquafarm [ Jun 26th, '13, 19:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rigid pvc piping vs. flexible black ribbed hose |
When I say LIVE I mean PICK YOUR OWN at farmer market, I keep them thriving and what does not sell it's still growing happy, because they look fresh that does not mean it's LIVE. Harvested lettuce will (wilt=die) within 3 day. Our lettuces stay fresh until it's fully eaten. (a week in the fridge) (until go flowering if transplanted at home) We do not harvest...we do not waste! Everybody is been selling harvested produce just like anyone I know of including any AP operation, only recently supermarket are starting to trial and selling salads in the rooting plug. If you refer to the ZIPGROW tower system, well there is a difference there, they still cut the plants off. So it's no longer LIVE! Does it make sense? |
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