Backyard Aquaponics :: View topic - Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?

There's no way for the toxins to leave the system, if they were to leach out, other than through the produce, eaten by you, or overflow from rain if the system is uncovered

Also, do you have the MSDS for said flocculant?

Ronmaggi wrote:

Also, do you have the MSDS for said flocculant?

Yes sir, just found it.

http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/praestol-a3040l.pdf

Emergency Overview
Irritant to eyes and Skin. OSHA classifies th
is product as an irritant under 29 CFR1910.1200.
Potential Health Effects: Eyes
Irritant to the eyes.
Potential Health Effects: Skin
Irritant to the skin.
Potential Health Effects: Ingestion
May be harmful if swallowed. Seek medical attention.
Potential Health Effects: Inhalation
Avoid prolonged inhalation of heat
ed and/or concentrated vapors.
HMIS Ratings:
Health:1
Fire:1
Reactivity:0
Pers. Prot.:B

Honestly, this is the only part that really has me concerned:

"State Regulations
B: Component Analysis – State
This product contains <0.1% residual acrylamide (CAS
# 79-06-1), and the following states recognize acrylamide
as a carcinogen or suspected carcino
gen: CA (Prop 65), MA, MN, NJ & PA. "

But less than .1%.... am I being too paranoid? lol

From wiki

"Acrylamide decomposes in the presence of acids, bases, oxidizing agents, iron, and iron salts. It decomposes non-thermally to form ammonia, and thermal decomposition produces carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and oxides of nitrogen."

Which means its unstable and most things will decompose it and assuming you go the non thermal way to ammonia. Another toxic chemical but one which we use.

Sleepe wrote:

Awesome, awesome, awesome, lol

This is the revelation I needed to feel safe! Thank you so much!

Yeah, i would say if this stuff's breaking down into ammonia that there's probably nothing left in there but ammonia to begin with, even before a super-cleaning.

I'm thinking this is a go

Thank you guys, seriously helped me out here!!

I personally have been growing organically for a while now and just setting up my first AP system, so for me it is simple, for the sake of $25 deference per IBC i didnt batter an eye lid at going with Food Grade.

Author:	j_b [ Jun 23rd, '13, 10:39 ]
Post subject:	Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
My IBC's contained Praestol(R) water flocculant. The research I did says this flocculant is non toxic in its polyacrylamide from, however there has been known to be traces of acrylamide, which is a neurotoxin what does the community think about using these? Think it would be safe after a good cleaning and rinsing? Honestly I'm thinking after having been sitting around empty, then cleaned extremely well, that my chances of having a toxic amount of this stuff is pretty slim... Am I wrong in thinking that?

Author:	kitacooch [ Jun 23rd, '13, 17:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Hi j-b, i am a newbi so take what i say with a grain of salt. I personally have been growing organically for a while now and just setting up my first AP system, so for me it is simple, for the sake of $25 deference per IBC i didnt batter an eye lid at going with Food Grade. If you already have them i have heard plenty on people washing with soapy water and pressure cleaning them and using them, whether they get chemical traces in their food ?????? I did hear of someone filling their IBC's with water and encouraging algae to grow to prove that the IBC's were not toxic. Me personally i would just get some food grade ones, but i assume plenty will say just wash and use them.

Author:	jono81 [ Jun 23rd, '13, 18:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Yeah not worth the risk in my opinion.. why potentially expose your family to to neurotoxins to save a few bucks. There's no way for the toxins to leave the system, if they were to leach out, other than through the produce, eaten by you, or overflow from rain if the system is uncovered

Author:	j_b [ Jun 24th, '13, 01:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
jono81 wrote: There's no way for the toxins to leave the system, if they were to leach out, other than through the produce, eaten by you, or overflow from rain if the system is uncovered Well the point of the hard-core washing would be so that it doesn't make it into the system... (at least that's the hope haha!) As far as "food grade," the plastic container itself is NSF, its just what was in it that is the concern. My research shows me that the toxic compound that can be found in this stuff is soluble in water, ethanol, etc... Is it unwise to clean anything in your system with alcohol? In the heat where I live i'm almost positive that it would all evaporate. I don't have a source for IBC's, actually finding these were a fluke, that's why I grabbed em up. Anyone in Alabama know a source for safe IBC's? I'd love to know where I could get them on demand if I needed more... Or chicken out of using these, lol

Author:	Ronmaggi [ Jun 24th, '13, 02:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
It should be fairly easy to find it along major trucking routes. And I am pretty sure the I-10 corridor goes through Alabama, right? Craigslist is a good starting point. I found a tote recycler in my area. They even segregated their food safe from non-food safe, and already washed.

Backyard Aquaponics http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/

Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No? http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17060	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Ronmaggi [ Jun 24th, '13, 02:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Also, do you have the MSDS for said flocculant?

Author:	j_b [ Jun 24th, '13, 04:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Ronmaggi wrote: Also, do you have the MSDS for said flocculant? Yes sir, just found it. http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/praestol-a3040l.pdf Emergency Overview Irritant to eyes and Skin. OSHA classifies th is product as an irritant under 29 CFR1910.1200. Potential Health Effects: Eyes Irritant to the eyes. Potential Health Effects: Skin Irritant to the skin. Potential Health Effects: Ingestion May be harmful if swallowed. Seek medical attention. Potential Health Effects: Inhalation Avoid prolonged inhalation of heat ed and/or concentrated vapors. HMIS Ratings: Health:1 Fire:1 Reactivity:0 Pers. Prot.:B Honestly, this is the only part that really has me concerned: "State Regulations B: Component Analysis – State This product contains <0.1% residual acrylamide (CAS # 79-06-1), and the following states recognize acrylamide as a carcinogen or suspected carcino gen: CA (Prop 65), MA, MN, NJ & PA. " But less than .1%.... am I being too paranoid? lol

Author:	kitacooch [ Jun 24th, '13, 04:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
j_b wrote: Ronmaggi wrote: Also, do you have the MSDS for said flocculant? Yes sir, just found it. http://www.hillbrothers.com/msds/pdf/n/praestol-a3040l.pdf Emergency Overview Irritant to eyes and Skin. OSHA classifies th is product as an irritant under 29 CFR1910.1200. Potential Health Effects: Eyes Irritant to the eyes. Potential Health Effects: Skin Irritant to the skin. Potential Health Effects: Ingestion May be harmful if swallowed. Seek medical attention. Potential Health Effects: Inhalation Avoid prolonged inhalation of heat ed and/or concentrated vapors. HMIS Ratings: Health:1 Fire:1 Reactivity:0 Pers. Prot.:B Honestly, this is the only part that really has me concerned: "State Regulations B: Component Analysis – State This product contains <0.1% residual acrylamide (CAS # 79-06-1), and the following states recognize acrylamide as a carcinogen or suspected carcino gen: CA (Prop 65), MA, MN, NJ & PA. " But less than .1%.... am I being too paranoid? lol NOT AT ALL, i would be paranoid also, but i could be classed as a little on the more extreme side of health/chemical awareness of my families food consumption. I read somewhere that fish have a sense of smell that was quite ridiculously extreme cant remember exactly but you can safely assume that they will pick up on the slightest amount of residue in the system, may not be enough to kill them but possible effect them in some way?? You hear of people having problems getting their systems going properly and 1 cant help but wonder if it has something to do with some of the materials they have used?? Again, for the sake of a few hundred dollars i personally would go get some that have had some sort of stable food stuff in them. Finding them shouldn't be an issue, these IBT's are used all over the world.

Author:	j_b [ Jun 24th, '13, 06:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Thanks for the reassurance that im not being overly picky about this. To be honest if it were not for a budget problem, i'd scrap em and go buy something else...

Author:	Sleepe [ Jun 24th, '13, 08:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
From wiki "Acrylamide decomposes in the presence of acids, bases, oxidizing agents, iron, and iron salts. It decomposes non-thermally to form ammonia, and thermal decomposition produces carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and oxides of nitrogen." Which means its unstable and most things will decompose it and assuming you go the non thermal way to ammonia. Another toxic chemical but one which we use.

Author:	Ronmaggi [ Jun 24th, '13, 09:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Perhaps a dash of HCL, and problem gone.

Author:	j_b [ Jun 25th, '13, 03:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
Sleepe wrote: From wiki "Acrylamide decomposes in the presence of acids, bases, oxidizing agents, iron, and iron salts. It decomposes non-thermally to form ammonia, and thermal decomposition produces carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and oxides of nitrogen." Which means its unstable and most things will decompose it and assuming you go the non thermal way to ammonia. Another toxic chemical but one which we use. Awesome, awesome, awesome, lol This is the revelation I needed to feel safe! Thank you so much! Yeah, i would say if this stuff's breaking down into ammonia that there's probably nothing left in there but ammonia to begin with, even before a super-cleaning. I'm thinking this is a go Thank you guys, seriously helped me out here!!

Author:	kitacooch [ Jun 25th, '13, 04:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
j_b wrote: Sleepe wrote: From wiki "Acrylamide decomposes in the presence of acids, bases, oxidizing agents, iron, and iron salts. It decomposes non-thermally to form ammonia, and thermal decomposition produces carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and oxides of nitrogen." Which means its unstable and most things will decompose it and assuming you go the non thermal way to ammonia. Another toxic chemical but one which we use. Awesome, awesome, awesome, lol This is the revelation I needed to feel safe! Thank you so much! Yeah, i would say if this stuff's breaking down into ammonia that there's probably nothing left in there but ammonia to begin with, even before a super-cleaning. I'm thinking this is a go Thank you guys, seriously helped me out here!! Mmmmm and Wiki is such a trusted source........

Author:	Sleepe [ Jun 25th, '13, 08:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
World Health Organisation (although perhaps that is not trustworthy)? "2.1 Human Exposure to Acrylamide Acrylamide is not known to occur naturally. When released into the air, acrylamide will be precipitated in solution, because of its high solubility, and will enter the surface water compartment. It is readily biodegraded in water. Persistence and accumulation of the monomer in the environment will not occur. The general public may be exposed to small amounts of monomer acrylamide, derived from polymeric acrylamide used in water treatment and in the treatment of effluents, prior to their discharge to surface waters. Concentrations of acrylamide in tap-water and river water, in areas where acrylamide polymers were used for these purposes, were less than 5 µg/litre. Polyacrylamides containing small amounts of monomer are used in food preparation, the washing or peeling of fruit and vegetables, the printing of gelatin capsules for pharmaceutical use, and in food packaging. These uses result in negligible exposure of the general population." (Bolding and underlining added)

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Author:	johnlvs2run [ Jun 25th, '13, 08:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Flocculant IBC's... Safe or No?
kitacooch wrote: I personally have been growing organically for a while now and just setting up my first AP system, so for me it is simple, for the sake of $25 deference per IBC i didnt batter an eye lid at going with Food Grade. I'm glad you didn't batter your eye lids! The only source I've found in the area replied that the food grade IBC's were verified so by their previous owners, so who knows what they really contained. There is unlikely an testing or certification that verifies IBC's are food grade after use, hence a conundrum on whether to use something else.