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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 28th, '10, 08:11 
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Here is a pic of the original bell siphons that have worked without a problem since setting up the system in November last year
Attachment:
siphons 013 (Medium).jpg
siphons 013 (Medium).jpg [ 75.64 KiB | Viewed 1672 times ]
:(
Attachment:
siphons 015 (Medium).jpg
siphons 015 (Medium).jpg [ 55.87 KiB | Viewed 1673 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 28th, '10, 08:14 
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And here is the Affnan siphons that have replaced the Bells
Attachment:
siphons 031 (Medium).jpg
siphons 031 (Medium).jpg [ 70.8 KiB | Viewed 1673 times ]

Attachment:
siphons 025 (Medium).jpg
siphons 025 (Medium).jpg [ 81.59 KiB | Viewed 1674 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 28th, '10, 10:11 
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Hey DR, I still say your original bell is an Affnan with a breather hose, it still has a funnel (reducer) on the top there for I recon falls into the affnan catagory :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 28th, '10, 10:28 
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Simo wrote:
Hey DR, I still say your original bell is an Affnan with a breather hose, it still has a funnel (reducer) on the top there for I recon falls into the affnan catagory :mrgreen:




Hi Simo
While both types have a funnel reducer the difference is the affnan has a greater volume in the internal area of the stand pipe in relation to the volume between the outer area of the standpipe and the innner area of the bell, it is critical that the former area is greater than the later. I think this is the fundamental difference between the two.
Another difference I have observed with the air tube on the bell and the hole on the Affnan is that the inflow of water from the Affnan probably assists with the quicker siphon action as it creates a restriction and greater turbulence inside the standpipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 05:19 
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Hey, just ran out of battery in my camera so will put up pics of my siphon tomm. Its pretty much as the same as the first one that desertrat posted in as much as it has a straight standpipe with a funnel at the top, only mine has a 1 3/4" to 3/4" reduced on top rather than a funnel.

With regards to it being an Affnan siphon, the innovation that Affnan found was manipulating Bernoulli's equation, as his blog explains. So any reduction in diameter of the standpipe causes the power of the siphon to increase. Therefore both those siphons that you put up are Affnan's desertrat, as both take advantage of Bernoulli's to increase siphon power. The outside dia to inside dia of the bell is a separate innovation that Affnan has thought of but not tested as his blog states, his innovation takes place inside the siphon at the point where the dia of the pipe is reduced, not outside. The fact that it is easier for the siphon to break due to the small amount of water standing around the standpipe is merely a byproduct advantage of his innovation, not the crux of it.

Anyhew, I may be wrong, why don't we get Affnan onto the forum and make sure...?
:flower:


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 08:05 
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abdul wrote:
why don't we get Affnan onto the forum and make sure...?
:flower:


I think he is too busy, what with being a genius and all :brilsmurf:


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 15:17 
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My first system (and my intro to AP) is recorded here ...

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6680&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60

I was encouraged to make a "mega-siphon" by chainsaw and it has turned out, and works, very well. Some specific photos of it today ....

(Later, I'll make another post based on my new system with a couple of mega-siphons BUT the bell is suspended from the top).

In both systems I use a bleed valve just for the purpose of letting the air out of the bell as it is pushed over the standpipe. Once down and all air expelled, I close the valve and leave it alone (oh well, I do have a fiddle now and then :naughty: ).


Attachments:
File comment: Three GB (bathtubs) connected to mega-siphon.
tn_P1000241.JPG
tn_P1000241.JPG [ 65.46 KiB | Viewed 1536 times ]
File comment: 90mm bell alongside 100mm mega-siphon
tn_P1000231.JPG
tn_P1000231.JPG [ 44.41 KiB | Viewed 1535 times ]
File comment: centre of siphon with 50mm reducer on standpipe.
tn_P1000232.JPG
tn_P1000232.JPG [ 54.59 KiB | Viewed 1534 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 15:39 
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My new system is still WIP .... It took me a week to get the siphon working exactly as I wanted.

Basically the mega-siphon consists of 90mm outer casing (storm water pipe). The bell is 85mm DWV with an end cap. Standpipe is 25mm (and can have a 40mm reducer on top - but I found it is not really necessary - works very well without it). The base of the 'T' piece is blocked with a 90mm end cap. A 25mm hole is drilled through the cap and a 25mm threaded socket fitted. This is then screwed into a thread 25mm (F) 50mm (M) adapter with another adapter to slide onto the 50mm pipe to the ST. This is buried in the ground and emerges at the side of the ST.

I have managed to tweak the siphon so that it starts just as the water reaches maximum height in the GB (adjust standpipe length) and cuts off as the level reaches the bottom of the plastic tubs in the GB. (adjust length of the bell).

Argh yes .... some photos ....


Attachments:
File comment: Work in Progress ...
tn_P1000170.JPG
tn_P1000170.JPG [ 126.23 KiB | Viewed 1525 times ]
File comment: standpipe - bell removed and sitting on GB
tn_P1000239.JPG
tn_P1000239.JPG [ 67.21 KiB | Viewed 1525 times ]
File comment: 90mm Mega-siphon
tn_P1000233.JPG
tn_P1000233.JPG [ 50.87 KiB | Viewed 1527 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 15:42 
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and I need some volunteers to help wash gravel ..... :roll:


Attachments:
File comment: gravel needed in individual tubs. Last GB will be floating raft experiment ....
tn_P1000252.JPG
tn_P1000252.JPG [ 109.61 KiB | Viewed 1522 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 19:31 
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OK here are a couple of photos of my Mega syphon connected to 6 half barrels.

I utilise the screw on cap as top of the bell and then just cut the length of the bell pipe required, glue it in place and ensure it has an airtight seal (can even run a bead of silicone around it for good measure). When it is screwed on the bottom of the bell is the cutoff point, no need to cut slots etc. it is suspended at the right level, no air bleed tube, havent found it necessary. Dont have problem of airlock blowing bell out either. Can use an Affnan funnel standpipe with it if needed, I dont have a problem with starting as the rate of water rising in the GB is sufficient (ie pump flow).

If water flow is too great and syphon wont stop I use a little air bleed on top of the bell (little yellow valve) stick a bit of 4mm airline on it (stephascope) listen to what goes on and introduce air until stops. Dont really need it on mine but thought would mention it if people are having stopping problems. AND dont forget a vent hole can be on outer edge of screw cap or through the side of outer casing (at the top).

Later will post some drawings for members use (Ian K is kindly drawing some up)


Attachments:
Mega BS Mk2.JPG
Mega BS Mk2.JPG [ 116.42 KiB | Viewed 1483 times ]
Glue On Standpipe.JPG
Glue On Standpipe.JPG [ 81.85 KiB | Viewed 1482 times ]
Screwon Cap.JPG
Screwon Cap.JPG [ 90.15 KiB | Viewed 1480 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 29th, '10, 23:11 
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Quote:
Hey, just ran out of battery in my camera so will put up pics of my siphon tomm. Its pretty much as the same as the first one that desertrat posted in as much as it has a straight standpipe with a funnel at the top, only mine has a 1 3/4" to 3/4" reduced on top rather than a funnel.

With regards to it being an Affnan siphon, the innovation that Affnan found was manipulating Bernoulli's equation, as his blog explains. So any reduction in diameter of the standpipe causes the power of the siphon to increase. Therefore both those siphons that you put up are Affnan's desertrat, as both take advantage of Bernoulli's to increase siphon power. The outside dia to inside dia of the bell is a separate innovation that Affnan has thought of but not tested as his blog states, his innovation takes place inside the siphon at the point where the dia of the pipe is reduced, not outside. The fact that it is easier for the siphon to break due to the small amount of water standing around the standpipe is merely a byproduct advantage of his innovation, not the crux of it.

Anyhew, I may be wrong, why don't we get Affnan onto the forum and make sure...?


Abdul you explained it perfectly.... :thumbright: :wave:

Affnan


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 30th, '10, 04:41 
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Oh hellooooo! Praise from Caeser :wave1:

Absolutely fabulous to see you here Affnan, you rock!

And here are pics of my siphon, built and adjusted quickly and easily all thanks to Affnan's terrific blog :D


Attachments:
File comment: A pic of the reducer on top, its a 1 1/2" to 3/4" reducer, the funnel shaped one is unavailable here, if size allow I'm going to add the 1 1/2" fitting at the end.
DSC04277 (Medium).JPG
DSC04277 (Medium).JPG [ 61.01 KiB | Viewed 1434 times ]
File comment: A view of all three parts, the standpipe, the bell and the protector, left to right.

Its for a 12 1/2" round, 10" high GB, standpipe is 3/4" and bell is 2". The elbow at the bottom is to create restriction which helps the siphon to for, the air pipe is there to help it break and the reducer on top to get a little Bernoulli action going [;

DSC04276 (Medium).JPG
DSC04276 (Medium).JPG [ 65.41 KiB | Viewed 1434 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 30th, '10, 07:05 
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Hey Abdul,

I think the hole in your protector or gravel screen might be too large depending on the size of the rocks you end up getting.

Why did you put the air break tube on the Affnan? I did not find this was needed when I built my Affnans


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 30th, '10, 08:15 
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Abdul

your reducer on top of the stand pipe look a bid doggy. It may not be as efficient as it should if the funnel part lack gradient. If its a square reduction then it will generate a lot of restriction, back pressure and turbulence.

Air break tube together with funnel siphon,, you must have inherit it much from the "Brits" Belt and Suspenders concept. Anyway its a hybrid then.. who knows it may make it even better to have hybrid, especially for those that cannot find exact parts to reproduce my basic design.

What ever it is Abdul.. keep on testing and refining.. we are all learning, and in my opinion you have did a right thing by joining this forum. There are many experience individual here, I learn al lot about AP here. There are different ideas, this is a good thing, because we will never stop learning.

As a teacher I must say.. the moment we stop learning.. that's when we are starting to die.

Cheers.

Affnan

BTW.. Joel started this thread for pictures of siphon... keep em rolling.


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 Post subject: Re: Siphon pics
PostPosted: Jun 30th, '10, 08:52 
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The holes may indeed be a little too large, will adjust that once I get my grow media finalized today.

I added the breather tube as it was having trouble breaking the siphon due to high flow by the pump. The actual system will actually have much lower flow than in my tests but I just wanted to make the siphon bulletproof. Moving towards a policy of making it 'safe' rather than 'not unsafe'.

The reducer is a bit dodgy Affnan, during tests I found that the restriction with the elbow at the bottom was needed in order to get it to start and the breather tube in order to get it to stop, no change with and without the reducer, though what i did notice was, that when the overflow started without the reducer, water level still increased in the GB for about half an inch before it started slowly falling, with the reducer the second overflow started the level in the GB started to go down, overall it did seem to aid the siphon establishment but it was in no way critical. Time will tell whether I've managed to make it bulletproof or not, but as per my reading it has all the tweaks added that we know of.

Regardless, pictures of other people's work is immensely educating, and I wholly agree with Affnan that we must keep learning.

Three cheers for the BYAP forum, hip hip HUZZAHH!!!


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