Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

NEW UNTESTED SIPHON DESIGN to work with any GB inflow rate.

This siphon should start very fast with any GB inflow rate.
No moving parts.
I have not made this yet, but I see no reason why it should not work well.
I wanted to post this first, as I do not have time to make this yet.


The main siphon output tube can be any size, even 2 inches diameter.
When water begins to flow in the siphon, it will first go into the 1/2 inch tube.
Water will flow much faster in a 1/2 inch tube rather than a larger tube.
The faster flow will draw air out with it through the 1/2 inch tube.
As soon as a little air is drawn out of the system the water will start flowing into the siphon faster.
More water draws more air out, and very rapidly, the siphon starts fully working.
The main siphon can be set wide open or partially blocked to set any flow rate, and will NOT effect starting.

This means that the top waterline on the FT can be 2 inches below the bottom of the GB, and work well.
In that case, your pump only needs to pump through a short height to circulate, saving on electricity use.
I wanted to be able to use any size of output tube, should a faster flow ever be wanted.
I think that alterations to this can produce an even simpler good working system.

The only reason for a horizontal extension pipe on the bottom, is to
run the water almost horizontal to a FT that is further away.

That is what is hoped for.
So cut it down and see if I have missed something. It is possible that I have missed something important.

This is a link to my first siphon design.
viewtopic.php?p=375859#p375859

Do you plan on building and testing it?

I plan to build it as soon as I get a chance to. . I have a couple different projects that I need to finish first.

Huh??.. I'd have to see this built and working...

Seems like you have an Affnan flared (funnel) outlet... with a "breather tube".. which shouldn't be needed at all...

Connecting down into another container... which appears to drain into some sort of "trap"..

Sorry.. but I just don't get it....

What your post means is that I have done a poor job of explaining how this is supposed to work. That is feedback that I need. I just hope it does not lead me to see a major design flaw. . That happens tooooo much.
That first short tube that feeds into the funnel, is a little lower so that all the first flow of water goes into it.
when that water goes into the funnel, and down that 1/2 inch tube, it will draw air down with it. If the 1/2 inch tube was larger, the water would go down it and not carry as much air with it. A 3/8 diameter tube might work better than the 1/2 inch tube, but I will have to test that.
This 1/2 inch tube is the only route that will take the air out of the siphon. The 1/4 inch tube is to hopefully pull the air from the top of the siphon in a venturi effect. That should work without the 1/4 inch tube, but only testing will find out.
Please keep questions coming if this is not clear.. It is often hard to describe what I am thinking , but I hope my thought process is correct !!!!! thankyou.

won't water leak out from the (unsealed just clipped )drain if the drain has any back pressure? would need to ensure fall/length of drain did not restrict water flow?

Also, what haapens when a bit of crap gets stuck in the 1/4 section? what are the failure modes of the system and do they create a HSM?

nope

No matter what, certain flow rates will be required no matter how to try and engineer it. It requires specific flow amounts/volume to create the vacuum and then the siphon itself

One size does not fit all....

Waiting to be corrected

there are a few options.

1. The longer horizontal length of drain may need to be a bigger diameter pipe if starting to get back pressure.
2. You could put a bigger flow restrictor on it.
3. Drains under sinks often have a screw nut tightener to keep from leaking. If you have matching size down pipe, that would fit that attachment, that could be used.
4. If you needed to, you could put a 1 inch extension on the top part of the removable receiving pipe.
5. Slant a longer horizontal pipe with a little more slope.


The 1/4 inch pipe has the only function of air going through it. It should work without using the 1/4 inch pipe.
It's only purpose is to make the siphon work a little more efficiently.
The 1/4 inch needs to remove all of the air right to the top of it, before any water could enter it, and only testing out a working model will tell me how often that will happen.


The main purpose of this siphon design, is so that the water surface of the FT can be put as close to the bottom of the GB as possible. This is to reduce energy cost of pumping the water back up to the grow bed. Water pumping cost is directly related to how high the water must be pumped.

ummmmm - what??? Lost me here

A timed pump is on 15/off 45 - pump height does not matter
CF is on 24/7 - lets say

How is cost affected with your siphon?

Erich - a good question.

I agree that is why many people can not get their siphon working, because they do not have a high enough flow rate.
That is why I put what amounts to a small 1/2 inch tube which works like a mini-siphon to start the larger siphon.
With a slow flow rate in some siphons, the u trap in the bottom keeps the air from re-entering from the bottom.
The u trap also makes it harder for the air to get down and out of the siphon to create the vacuum.
I use the 1/2 inch tube which can remove the air easier to create the siphon..

There are a couple of rules with siphons, almost any size will do and generally im stunned that people worry to much about sizing (unless you "have to" for drainage times/volumes). You can not only have a high enough flow rate, you can also have to much. You will need to factor this into your siphon (and why i believe it wont work)

These rules are:

If the siphon will not start there is not enough water flow
If it will not stop there is too much

Erich
The siphon design makes it possible to reduce the distance between the FT water surface and the bottom of the GB.
This shorter height, means that it will not take so much energy to pump the water back up, compared to if you had to pump the water a much higher distance, with a lower FT water level.

Did I explain that well enough, or should I make a diagram to explain it.

Erich




Those are the rules for most siphons. This siphon is designed differently.

The siphons that you know will not start because there is not enough water flow, are because you know they were designed for a higher water flow.
My design will work with any water flow and is designed to be able to start with a much smaller water flow.


This design addition that another person has figured out, will stop a siphon almost instantly no mater what the water flow is.
viewtopic.php?p=375415#p375415
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12660

FYI....Its been proven that a pond pump has less current draw at higher loads.

Better check and see if it even works first..