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PostPosted: Jun 7th, '09, 21:38 
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Joined: Jun 3rd, '09, 23:33
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TCLynx wrote:
I've only had trouble with siphons when I was walking the edge. As in, if you build a siphon that is just not in the size range of your flow rate, you will struggle with it and it may never work. If you are near the edge of the size or flow acceptable to a siphon, it will be more likely to need adjusting as flow rates change with time. If you manage to build a siphon spot on with the flow rate into the grow bed as well as the flow rate though your media, that is gonna be the siphon that runs without issue.

Another problem for siphons is fall or lack of it. If you try to design a system with siphons but don't allow enough fall for the siphon to clearly start and stop, it will likely have issues too.

Now perhaps a timer and stand pipe might be a little more fool proof for a beginner (as long as the timer doesn't malfunction or the drain holes get clogged) but I don't necessarily feel the desire to put fish in the hands of too many fools. Paying attention to proper feeding and making sure water quality stays good seem far more complex to me than a little plumbing tinkering.

I personally think the FLOUT is the most fool proof of draining devices.


You are very correct on the siphon there, normal stand pipe design will need to work at a very narrow margin of water flow. That is why after experimenting with siphon design for a long time I come out with a design that able to accept pump wattage from 12 ~ 30 watt without issue. the best to use 20 watt pump. If pump degrade you still have a huge margin to play with.

I can safely say, it a design that you can have beer all year round... :mrgreen:

Much appreciate if anyone can test it out.

cheers

http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com


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PostPosted: Jun 7th, '09, 22:43 
affnan wrote:
You are very correct on the siphon there, normal stand pipe design will need to work at a very narrow margin of water flow. That is why after experimenting with siphon design for a long time I come out with a design that able to accept pump wattage from 12 ~ 30 watt without issue. the best to use 20 watt pump. If pump degrade you still have a huge margin to play with.


Not sure why you say a stand pipe "will need to work at a very narrow margin of water flow"???

Standpipe adjustment can be easily manipulated by adjusting the inflow with a ball valve... and/or the outflow by (if need be) drilling another hole...

Changing a pump may only mean altering the ball valve... or if need be simply removing the standpipe and inserting another....

On the other hand a bell siphon may need adjustment by ball valve, holes (as you've done)... or a complete reworking of both pipes if you get it wrong the first time...

And possible adjustment to fall.....

Changing a pump might completely upset the delicate balance of a siphon...

Having said that...many of the older members changed to a "bell siphon" several years ago... and have had them work relatively flawlessly... as have many newer members....

Can you explain to me what exactly the wattage of the pump has to do with the success or otherwise of a bell siphon??


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PostPosted: Jun 8th, '09, 00:29 
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Joined: Jun 3rd, '09, 23:33
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RupertofOZ wrote:
Can you explain to me what exactly the wattage of the pump has to do with the success or otherwise of a bell siphon??


Without any ball valve to adjust water inflow, the amount of water in is dependent on the pump wattage. Bigger wattage pump more flow in and vise versa, that all.

I have found that with a straight stand pipe design, it will siphon with certain pump capacity, smaller it will fail to siphon, bigger it will siphon but fail to cut off (if you do not have the air break tube)

Having a ball valve just restrict water flow, as if you are changing pump wattage. I try to use less component for my design, that is why I only use different pump wattage and not a big pump with ball valve to adjust.

With good bell siphon design, it can work with a broad range of pump sizes, in my experiment 12 watt to about 30 watt.., this will give you broad range of margin if a partial blockage occur or pump efficiency reduce with age. Using a say 20 watt pump with the valve I made will ensure trouble free operation over time.

You are very skeptical of the siphon I made.., I wonder why.., I am just trying to help Aquaponics enthusiast to have a chance to try out maybe a better siphon system. I am not making any profit of this design.. just helping others.

cheers


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PostPosted: Jun 8th, '09, 07:57 
affnan wrote:
Without any ball valve to adjust water inflow, the amount of water in is dependent on the pump wattage. Bigger wattage pump more flow in and vise versa, that all.

I have found that with a straight stand pipe design, it will siphon with certain pump capacity, smaller it will fail to siphon, bigger it will siphon but fail to cut off (if you do not have the air break tube)

Very true... for siphons, and sizings, are totally dependant on flow rate... and the air break tube was developed for exactly that reason...
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Having a ball valve just restrict water flow, as if you are changing pump wattage. I try to use less component for my design, that is why I only use different pump wattage and not a big pump with ball valve to adjust.

Well... no.... adjusting the flow rate with a ball valve doesn't alter the pump wattage or have anything to do with pump wattage....

It merely adjusts the flow rate.... which you could say is roughly comparable to swapping a different pump... with a different flow rate... which may or may not be a different wattage..
Quote:
With good bell siphon design, it can work with a broad range of pump sizes, in my experiment 12 watt to about 30 watt.., this will give you broad range of margin if a partial blockage occur or pump efficiency reduce with age. Using a say 20 watt pump with the valve I made will ensure trouble free operation over time.

I think that in fact.... but sheer chance and some experimentation... you have found a workable solution that fits your narrow range of pump flow rates, system design and head...

It just so happens that it fits within a certain wattage of pumps that you have used...
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You are very skeptical of the siphon I made.., I wonder why.., I am just trying to help Aquaponics enthusiast to have a chance to try out maybe a better siphon system. I am not making any profit of this design.. just helping others.

And more power to you by doing so Affnan... I'm not so much skeptical of the siphon you've made.... as I am about possibly some of your reasoning behind it... and the claim that it is an improvement over other designs.. and/or some sort of universal solution...

Heh... it works for you, your system and the pumps you use.... kewl... and thanks for sharing...


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