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Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4903	Page 1 of 5

Author:	Nocky [ Feb 8th, '09, 12:02 ]
Post subject:	Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Well big Kev is trying to give us some more money, is it a good or bad thing? I suppose I am fortunate enough to not really need it, but I will have it anyhow But will the people that need it do the right thing with it, I doubt it, most of the so called needy in my area will spend it on horses at the TAB, Booze and Cig's, so big kev will get a big back, as most of the good things above are taxed the most A few people I have asked at work etc have said they would pay off bills or bank it, not what Mr Rudd really wants, but not any like me have said they are going to spend it, I will put some towards my new system and wife wants to update the kitchen (we get x4) a little, but basically it is money we never had so we are going to buy what we want and would have been put off if the bonus didn't come through, So what will you do if the bonus come through?

Author:	veggie boy [ Feb 8th, '09, 12:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Nocky - you forgot the option 'I am unable to claim any deductions to help me get below the cutoff and claim all these bonuses'

Author:	KudaPucat [ Feb 8th, '09, 12:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
I've just got completely (barring the house) out of debt, so I have nothing to spend it on. Saving seems the wisest course atm. I need time, not money. Think he could be so generous as to dish out some time?

Author:	veggie boy [ Feb 8th, '09, 12:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Actually that was a silly post by me - as both my wife and myself will get cash if these current proposals go through (she will get the max ). Of course the part of the initiatives most under threat are the cash bonuses. Gotta say I'm not supportive of the package. Would have liked to see some investment in solar, presented in a way where it would create jobs for australians and provide an economical alternative to non green power.

Author:	Nocky [ Feb 8th, '09, 12:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
I agree VB i don't support the proposal either, not the way it is any how, if I earned $1,000,000 a year (I don't ) and wife $79,999 per year we would still get $950 But I am not going to send it back

Author:	RupertofOZ [ Feb 8th, '09, 14:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Well I'm a complete supporter of the measures that have been taken to date and those proposed... In terms of infrastructure spending... it makes great sense... and it's a decade overdue anyway... It's just a pity that little Johnnie Nubnut and the neo-bother boys didn't actually do it when the money was rolling in... rather than just rolling in their canapes and chardonay... I think Rudd has done more in 12 months for the nations future than the past governement did/didn't do in a decade... The contentious issue seems to be the "cash" handouts.... In terms of "stimulating" the economy.... this makes much more sense than tax cuts... primarily because the stimulus is needed now... not in six months time... To those that think that the previous cash injection didn't work.... you're completely wrong... It was direly needed... not just to negate the sense of crisis and generate confidence.... But to save the retail industry from collapse during it's most critical period ... Xmas... Retailers order stock for Xmas before/during October... and the value of that stock is essentially halved after the New Year.... If people had't have spent/brought up over the Xmas period.... retail would have suffered a huge impact... not only from low sales.... but from negative return on their stock... as they would have ahad so much stock left into the New Year that they would have had to heavily discount... As it turned out.... retail not only had a level of sales equivalent to previous years... but actually recorded an INCREASE in turnover.... Similarly... the current cash handout ... will not only keep the retail industry going... it will give the appearance of confidence in general... Let's be real... the agricultural, mining, investment, tourism and hospitality industries are ALL essentially recording NO growth OR NEGATIVE growth... and jobs are being lost accordingly... If the retail industry were to collapse... then not only would there be huge job losses... but the entire economy would essentially grind to a halt ... With no money passing through the tills.... the economy grinds to a halt.... as do manufacturing or importing businesses.... Money makes the world go round they say.... how true... even if sadly true.... And never truer, than at the moment.... our economy, as are most others... is driven by consumption... and consumption needs cash or credit to drive it... No matter how the cash injection is spent... credit repayment, pokies,gambling, alcohol, cigarettes or day to day consumption.... It keeps the wheels turning... if the wheels stop turning... then the shite will well and truely hit the fan.... beyond a recession IMO... And "he who was born to rule" Turnball... knows exactly that... I'm beginning to think that there is a distinct section of the Liberal party that continues to stroke his ego... setting him up for a fall from which he'll flee for good... leaving their preferred candidate ... Peter Costello.... God help us either way....

Author:	novaris [ Feb 8th, '09, 17:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
I have just bought a 2500L rainwater tank for water storage for the AP system, if we get the cash bonus it can help with this. Personal I think if they really want stimulate economy I would drop fuel excise for a year and drop payroll taxes for a couple. I have strong doubts that any child will end up more educated due to the suggested plan, and I recon 15% of the cash bonus will end up back in the governments coffers due to gambling. The stimulus will burn out in 2 months and tax payers will be lumbered for the next 10-15 years

Author:	RupertofOZ [ Feb 8th, '09, 17:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
The alternative of doing nothing... just means massive job cuts, business failures ... and no badly needed infrastructure... Tax input to government would be massively reduced... and social services would need to be massively increased... to the point that the budget was essentially in deficit to about the same amount over the same period... Now if we'd spent the money when times were good... and the infrastructure was already built... then perhaps other things could be done now... Sorry I just do not buy the Howardesque mantra ... of good economic management... They barely managed to oversee the economy... and wasted millions on war and self grandisement.... And if they were so darn clever and great... just like all the captains of industry and investment bankers.... Why didn't they see this coming.... even blind bloody Freddy could tell that if... if China's growth dropped back to a level of 6-7% (about average in most booming economies).... that Australia's mining boom would end.... And to base a nations economy and budget solely on a single sector industry.... is not good economic management in my view... To not utilise the boom time to bolster a nations infrastructure is just plain criminally negligent...

Author:	Dufflight [ Feb 8th, '09, 18:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
I do like the way home loan interest rates are going. Might give more people a chance to own there home instead of renting. Heard once that owning a home when you retire can be a critical thing.

Author:	Nocky [ Feb 8th, '09, 18:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Rupe it is a good thing but not the way it is structured, and even here now 66% are paying of debit or saving it, and most other polls go the same way with 60%+, this is not what the package is designed for, the package is to spend and keep employment, so really if the majority do what the govt don't want with the bonus then is almost the same as doing nothing

Author:	Jaymie [ Feb 8th, '09, 18:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
but paying off debt or saving, at least keeps bank staff employed

Author:	Nocky [ Feb 8th, '09, 18:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
but the money stops going around, and the banks and money are a big cause of the problem anyhow the govt needs the spending to stay in oz, and the govt gets the money back on the tax roundabout, bank staff will always have jobs

Author:	Dufflight [ Feb 8th, '09, 18:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Maybe a voucher system would be better.

Author:	RupertofOZ [ Feb 8th, '09, 19:07 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
But if they didn't pay off their credit cards... they'd have to use money to pay the higher monthly fees on a higher amount.... And most people pay their cards... then go and use them... by "spending" anyway... The money keeps moving... As I say the alternatives are what?..... I don't believe this is the "fix"... it's merely an attempt to buy as much time as possible in the hope that things will improve in six to twelve months... and to insulate the economy over the next 3 months... When IMO.... the shite is really going to hit the fan....

Author:	KudaPucat [ Feb 8th, '09, 19:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks Mr Rudd, my system will expand
Re voucher system: I agree. But managing it would be a nightmare. Who gets to claim vouchers back from the government? Who gets screwed because the vouchers aren't valid at their establishment? The little ppl that's who, those most likely to go under during this difficulty. Not just a loss of jobs but a loss of businesses for competition. Bunnings, Coles, Safeway, Harvey Norman etc would LOVE a voucher system, besides it's free advertising. The money would be much better spent if we could ensure as much as possible stays on our shores. How do I propose we do that? NFI: that's why I vote. So politicians can come up with this stuff. Or at least hire analysts and ideas men to tell them what to do Regarding stimulus over Xmas, even with the money going overseas for plasmas etc, I have to agree Rupe, you argue that very well. As for paying off debt being not what is intended, maybe, but it will still help. If I pay off the credit card and the car loan, as I intend to by the end of this week, it means I will have an extra x amount to spend per month. $1000 on a credit card averaging 20% interest = 200pa which is about $18 per month, that wont be saved, wont be paid to the banks, but instead will go into retail (unless DW splurges on the CC again )

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