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Author:  JohnnyH [ Dec 22nd, '08, 03:53 ]
Post subject:  Solar Power
can we discuss solar?

im looking to get into solar power as i can. start small and then expand even if its just a single panel that one day becomes a kw array. or a dc only rig like my friend 12vman

being in florida that big light is up there and way hot so i just feel its the right thing to do to use some of that awesome energy it offers up daily. no wind or hydro here but solar is doable

to just run some lighting and a radio when power is out from h-cane or because my utility companys hampster is out on coffee break. a system that can expand later

i do know solar hot water gives best return per dollar spent and thats about all i know except that solar panels are costly so i want to be sure when i buy one or more :D

so can you brothers and sisters share what you have learned with your pv systems? post some pics? discuss good vendors you like or think you would purchase hardware from? and less just talk about solar :mrgreen:

regards and respects, johnny
Author:  creative1 [ Dec 22nd, '08, 07:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
Well I have limited knowlege.
Also, as over here there are rebates for solar...
not just from the Fed Government but also the state gov.
I expect it will be different for you 8)

For us to install a solar array suitable for our consumption
we were looking at $20,000...(2kw) Less rebates of about $8000.
Being tied to the grid saves battery banks, but doesn't
keep you in power when there is an outage.

Any additional power generation done with green power is going to have a benifit :cheers: the more the better.
If you're thinking about your power useage, you will be starting to reduce it.

Photo voltaics PVs Are continuing to make improvements to the efficencies
design and cost, you will never be at the forefront of solar tech, but you will be helping the industry by using their products.

I was looking a few months ago...the panels were 215w soon they will have 400w, thats a little more than half the materials, for the same power
or should avail more panels = same $$$s as the feed back credits are
4 x the cents per kilowatt rate 14.8c unit(Kw) ~60c/kw.
It pays to produce power...
If you did it as a business you would be able to write off the panels
and all with depreciation :wink: and derive an income :flower:
Author:  hydrophilia [ Dec 22nd, '08, 12:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
Solar, eh!? PV is wonderful if 1) you have lots of cash or 2) really have no other source and need it often. If you are looking for emergency power (after a hurricane, etc) you might be best off with a generator: we have one in our camper and run a power line to the house for about 24hrs each year when power is out. We also have solar panels on the camper roof so we can camp for weeks and not run down the batteries (an example of #2 above). New tech should force prices down in the next year or two by at least 30%.

If you have a good sunny spot (or a strong roof) it is pretty easy to make a batch water heater that can take care of most or all of your water heating needs for only a few bucks (maybe $20 to $100): a wonderful thing, especially if you heat with electricity. Remember: displacing electricity use is just as valuable to you as generating power yourself and generally far far cheaper.
Author:  Cyara [ Dec 22nd, '08, 15:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
Yeah... real expensive to buy. There are kits available. But still expensive......

I am also interested in this. Might like to read these sites...
http://www.bigginhill.co.uk/solar.htm
http://www.thesolarplan.com/articles/yo ... ector.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_2056821_make-solar-panel.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to- ... ar-Panels/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build_a ... lar_Panel/

This is a nice video too.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im16D-4n ... re=related

I also really want to get into solar....... well all types of alternate energy.
Author:  JohnnyH [ Dec 22nd, '08, 20:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
well with bp and shell having their greasy greedy hands
in it and probaly other big oil in deep cover, its no wonder its premium priced. i do hope it will come down in price but im dubious with them greasy paws involved

all im trying to do really is get some backup lights (LED and small power for weather radio) a couple of 100 watts.

if i could see better this right here is the path i would walk , run and jog troward :D http://www.generatorsales.com/order/09922.asp?page=L09922

the british and indians have had some running continuosly for over 20 years. now thats is sexy ;)

a few acres of soybeans , and a press.

i might try one if i can find some old ex machinist guy nearby that can tear it down and check for sand in the castings. even if one just recharged battery banks it sure would make a nice stand alone power plant at a remote station or homestead.

of course ghould transport would have to deliver the portly green beastie on the road train as heavy haul ;)

but back on topic now. after searching all day on the net i find many of the solar vendors with active websites just lead back to same storefront. and there is a huge variant in pricing for same systems

scary . buyer beware methinks...
Author:  mylesau [ Dec 22nd, '08, 21:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
More on just talking about solar and the approach we've taken 'cause I don't think the hardware and installation would be comparable...

First thing I did was start reading our daily electricity usage. Electricity bills here provide an average usage figure for the period (1/4 year). This is good for a rough seasonal figure, but a daily usage figure provides significantly more useful detail. If a particular day is high, you can usually associate it with some activity and hence get a feel for what is using a larger portion of your power. This is all in preparation for installing solar - you need to get your usage down first - to get the best advantage from solar.

Next, reduce wherever you can - not all will apply for various reasons:
* Replace filament lights with compact fluoro lights.
* Turn it off it isn't needed.
* Turn it off at the wall (or pull the power lead), as many appliances use power whilst in standby.
* Consider your biggest usage items - are they really required - is there a better way...
* Don't buy a new appliance without considering it's power usage.
* If you have electric hot water, turn the temperature down.
* If you use an air-conditioner - don't - acclimatise yourself to the heat.
* If you use an electric heater - consider not using it as much, turn it down, or don't use it at all - rug up with jumpers etc. and use blankets instead.
* Buy a meter that measures appliance usage - makes it easy to identify what is bad and what is good, and what draws power when it probably shouldn't.
* Whatever else you can think of to reduce your usage.

It was obvious to me that replacing our electric hot-water system would reduce our electricity usage significantly, so we saved and managed to get a solar hot-water system installed. (Reduced our usage by 25-30%).

So at this point (present), we have managed to get our electricity use down as far as we can without spending significant money for little further gain (e.g. super efficient fridge at super high cost...). Our last electricity bill came in at 7.9 kWh/day.

Where we live the average solar power generated by a 1 kW system is reported as around 5 kWh per day - this means 5 hours of full sun on the 1 kW each day (though this is obviously spread over the full day and averaged for the year).

We have signed up for a 1 kW system (grid connect - no batteries), and hopefully when it comes to be installed (March/April), we will have additional $'s to be able to increase the size of the system to 2 kW. This will generate, on average 10 kWh/day - more than we use.

One thing about installing a smaller system, that you want to expand later - you need to put in a large enough PV Inverter to allow for the size you want - we are getting a 2 kW PV Inverter, even if we only start with a 1 kW system. This allows PV panels to be added later without any other upgrade.

Our roof does not face North (i.e. doesn't face the sun), so we have additional costs with installing frames to point the PV panels toward the sun.

This is an example of what our system will look like. Though each of our frames will hold 3 panels each. 6 panels generate 1 kW, so our final system will be made up of 4 frames and 12 panels.
Attachment:
File comment: Something like this.
gridf.jpg
gridf.jpg [ 97.11 KiB | Viewed 3956 times ]

Much of the above may be obvious to some, but perhaps not to others. Hope it's of some use to someone.
Author:  lovecreateinspire [ Dec 22nd, '08, 22:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
Just wanted to add support and blessings for the shift to solar... in your own timing and way...

I'm renting a place but still very interested in solar... i'm starting small such as solar torch and smaller solar units that charge devices and that which we need, so we can save in that way. will go all out when i can afford to invest... thankfully there are all kind of rebates in australia from gov to help out with the switch to solar/renewable.

warm wishes,
sandy
Author:  spiritrancho [ Dec 22nd, '08, 22:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
The real advantage to solar is continuing life support when the grid goes down. It is much more efficent to have grid connected solar with no battery bank with the new invertors. However with out battery you lose power without the grid. You can have both if you purchase the correct inverter. When charging battery beyond the load you will eventually fill her up and the charge controller will open and solar power is wasted. If set up to sell back then the system keeps using sun to sell power back to the grid.
I use solar to charge battery to run my well pump and water circulating pump. I use solar to run refer and freezer. I use solar to run AP pumps. Some of my systems sell back to grid, others stand alone.
I installed most of mine without rebates only tax deductions. When offered a rebate I studied the contract and noted that it required me to pay that rebate back if I decide to disconnect from the grid. Yet it had no provision for maintanence of the system nor for upgrading, which is a constant drain on finances.
Once I get my Indian ilster running I may well disconnect from the gird. I already make biodiesel and have the engine and alternator. I just need to make time to open and check out the engine and mount it rig coolng etc.
Yes, solar power is expensive. I have about $30k invested for my 4500 watts and 8oo watts of wind power. I believe I have saved about half of that in electric bills over the past 10 years. That is a much better return than can be had from interest on that money. In fact my savings have lost more value than that this year.
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Dec 22nd, '08, 22:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
Kewl Myles... got exactly the same roof.... I'm hassling the landlady to go solar, and the roof/mounting was the one thing I hadn't been able to explain to her enough...

I'll send her the picture... If you don't mind.... :wink:
Author:  timmy [ Dec 23rd, '08, 13:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
at the moment people with solar feeding back into the grid are being subsidized by everyone else, solar alone is not a sustainable solution to our power needs (unless you want to go completely off the grid, be nice if you had the money).
molten salt solar towers are the most promising alternative, they can provide a base load. just add nukes simmering away for emergencies and you've got a realistic, cheapish, clean source of power.

does anyone know why we use ac for transporting power long distances still? i though HVDC was more efficent.
Author:  Outbackozzie [ Dec 23rd, '08, 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
Coz the infrastructure is all AC still.

Wonder if the council would mind me putting a molten salt tower in my yard hmmm...:D
Author:  mylesau [ Dec 23rd, '08, 17:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
RupertofOZ wrote:
Kewl Myles... got exactly the same roof.... I'm hassling the landlady to go solar, and the roof/mounting was the one thing I hadn't been able to explain to her enough...

I'll send her the picture... If you don't mind.... :wink:

The picture was sent to me by the guys who will be doing my install - I'm sure they won't mind. I've got a higher resolution version if you need it.
Author:  Bridgette [ Dec 23rd, '08, 17:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
hi
Intreresting topic
Ill answer a couple of the questions,
why dont we distribute HVDC- well as someone above said our infrastructure is AC and if we went DC then the stepping down the voltage for redistribution would be a nightmare as well as every motor and every switch and appliance, special conditions need to be met and te transform AC is simple, yes there are inefficiencies in nearly all conversion of voltages but changing AC is really simple and cheap DC isnt.

Solar arrays - the comment above said the rest of the community is supplementing the cost of these arrays, do u mean by the rebate or another way, I bought a 1.2kw array and got the 8000 from the government as a rebate, it was there for all and I thought if I didnt go for it then it would dissappear, as it did the day after my application for rebate and been approved, the government means tested, I think we will generate over 1 000 000 watts this 12 month period.

I like the idea of wind and that is something u can do urself, there are plenty of websites on this topic.


Bree

:flower:
Author:  creative1 [ Dec 23rd, '08, 18:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
well done Bree :cheers:
Author:  KudaPucat [ Dec 23rd, '08, 18:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Solar Power
DC's a surer way to be electrocuted too... Most ppl assume not cos most DC is LV...
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