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| How irresponsible can people get? http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13032 |
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| Author: | bunson [ Jun 27th, '12, 16:30 ] |
| Post subject: | How irresponsible can people get? |
<sigh> http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/14056079/feral-fish-reach-perth-rivers |
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| Author: | Bender [ Jun 27th, '12, 18:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
It's disappointing that people dump these things in our waterways. I guess they get too big or the novelty wears off. I am constantly disappointed and dismayed at peoples ignorance and apathetic attitude towards the natural environment and their general lack of respect for biodiversity. On the other hand perhaps there is also a lack education for the community on these issues as well. Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510b using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | RupertofOZ [ Jun 27th, '12, 18:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
And that's why we end up with legislation that bans even fish that might not be overly invasive or destructive... And why blanket bans were proposed on chiclids and koi/carp... and bitterly opposed by many aquaria keepers... Sadly... many of the exotic species released come from the same ranks of that group though... And just as sadly... I've even seen similar attutides about other fish stocks.. and possible releases expressed even on the aquaponic forums... |
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| Author: | mantis [ Jun 27th, '12, 18:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
Then there are species that have become completely settled into an environment like the Redfin have in every waterway around here. Dont know of any fisherman that are worried about that though as Redfin are easy the best tasting fresh water fish around. 
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| Author: | JakartaGreen [ Jun 27th, '12, 18:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
If you dam and weir a river Fill it with fertilizer Salt it Add pesticides Make temporary wetlands permanent Then it's not native habitat anymore And you can't expect native fish to thrive At Least something is living in it |
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| Author: | Bender [ Jun 27th, '12, 21:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
JakartaGreen wrote: If you dam and weir a river Fill it with fertilizer Salt it Add pesticides Make temporary wetlands permanent Then it's not native habitat anymore And you can't expect native fish to thrive At Least something is living in it Can't agree with you on this. I agree that natural systems have been highly altered and degraded by peoples actions however it is ludicrous to allow exotic fish species to take over and destroy what's left of our native fish stocks/aquatic life. We should strive to fix our mistakes and make things better not just turn a blind eye. Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510b using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | Stuart Chignell [ Jun 28th, '12, 07:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
While redfin are never going to be eliminated from our environment there are still some areas (not very many) where they are not present and in those areas there are surviving native fish populations. I regularly find people who talk about adding redfin to those waters because there are no fish there to catch. |
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| Author: | bunson [ Jun 28th, '12, 08:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
Stuart Chignell wrote: I regularly find people who talk about adding redfin to those waters because there are no fish there to catch. Do you punch them in the face? I would... |
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| Author: | JakartaGreen [ Jun 28th, '12, 08:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
There is a deep alarm in the Australian psyche about being invaded Is it a deep mark of guilt on the heart of a nation for the theft of a continent? Or just our deep fear of being a European outpost far far from home? Who knows But it's certainly not based on fact We've introduced tens of thousands of species to this continent So actually increasing overall biodiversity significantly Most losses we've had have come from removing not adding species. The loss of critical weight range animals is not attributable to cat , which more than likely arrived 400 years ago or more Or to foxes But rather to the removal of the dingo and wedgtail and an effect call mesopredator release Essentially big predators kill smaller rivals and favour small animals While dingos also control goats No introduction of any species to Australia has been attributed with an extinction Even prickly pear only spread so fast because its loved by NATIVE animals As food Same with lantana The cane toad has not caused a single extinction, yet is hated! Why?? It's very hard as an ecologist to break through people's prejudices Especially in places where the propaganda is very xenophobic And doesn't face new understandings in ecology of island biogeography, extinction causes and the dark role of politics and semantics in biological science. But we are an aquaponics forum |
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| Author: | JakartaGreen [ Jun 28th, '12, 08:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
I'm not advocating mass releases of aquatic organisms Yet I am saying that the way we officially react is bizarre And predictable The language used is straight out of the yellow peril or red under the bed days of the 20th century It always shifts blame to the reaction of another organism to conditions we've created Ignoring biological realities associated with ecological shifts Carp get blamed for the decline in native fishspecies In the Murray darling When all scientific enquiry points to other factors Carp are eaten by the natives, and when floodplain dynamics are restored the natives increase and breed People freak over tillapia in northern rivers yet I. These rivers are some of the most voracious predators like barrammundi and crocodiles Which can only be differentiated from Nile perch by genetic testing and a scale count! Across the tropics tilapia and barra/ perch coexist happily It's just not rational |
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| Author: | Mr Damage [ Jun 28th, '12, 09:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
How could we argue with that?... I definitely don't want to be seen as being xenophobic... that would be so un-PC... so I'm off to find some Tilapia to add to my local lake! 
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| Author: | JakartaGreen [ Jun 28th, '12, 09:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
There are several exotics in Australia with conservation value too We have the only wild camels We have the largest wild herds of banteng cattle The tilapia here is pure breed of Oreochromis mossambicus which is endangered in its original habitat Radiata pine is naturally very restricted and vulnerable Tagasaste is restricted to a few islands in the canary islands Even sparrows in Europe are in decline Of course you could add tilapia to a local lake But they aren't going to survive or be noticed unless environmental conditions are modified to favour them! So your efforts would be pointless! As is your attempt at sarcasm If you really want to show a hardline stance for natives Why not start by giving your house back to the aboriginals And jump on a slow boat back to wherever you reckon you are native to? |
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| Author: | tojo [ Jun 28th, '12, 09:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
I think Rupert nailed it. One thing I never did before stumbling upon AP was browsing the italian equivalent of Gumtree in the "Pets" section under the fish species. What I have come to realize, after reading one too many insertions, is that aquaria fanatics are very quick to "outgrow" their current setup, most insertions being along the lines of "I need to get rid of all these fish because I'm changing the biotype" or "switching to marine/freshwater" or something along those lines. I wouldn't put it past many people (and there are actual videos on YouTube of people doing it) to go find the closest pond or lake or whatever and free their fish. Our main problem here anyway is procambarus clarki - Lousiana crawfish - (more than any alien fish... I mean carp were actually introduced by the Romans so we can't really complain to them now can we...) and those were introduced after escaping from a farmer and are now causing major damage. Sorry, rant over. It's 3 am, bear with me! Unfortunately, the answer to the original question is... very irresponsbile. |
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| Author: | Charlie [ Jun 28th, '12, 09:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
JakartaGreen wrote: Of course you could add tilapia to a local lake But they aren't going to survive or be noticed unless environmental conditions are modified to favour them! So your efforts would be pointless! As is your attempt at sarcasm If you really want to show a hardline stance for natives Why not start by giving your house back to the aboriginals And jump on a slow boat back to wherever you reckon you are native to? Jakartagreen  Mr Damage
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| Author: | JakartaGreen [ Jun 28th, '12, 09:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How irresponsible can people get? |
England is of course going to have a rapidly changing flora and fauna It's gone from ice waste land to what it us today within human history A clean slate Almost everything thing there flew swam or blew in Or was subsequently carried There's only 30 odd native tree species in the whole country, all coming from Europe after the ice There's more biodiversity on my university campus than the whole country in flora and fauna Wiki says about trees "Britain is relatively impoverished in terms of native species. For example, only thirty-one species of deciduous tree and shrub are native to Scotland, including ten willows, four whitebeams and three birch and cherry.[20][Notes 3]" |
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