Piles of Information

trout

Journeyman wrote:

My bad Lou - I misremembered the figures rather than looking them up. The 6000 was the gallons of fuel.

The point still stands though - where are the engines? That little fire could not possibly have vaporised them nor the usual debris found after plane crashes, plus first responders report no sign of a plane hitting the building and the only released photos show one frame only of an indistinct something that could not possibly be a large 757, particularly when compared to the background trees.

Just a wild guess

The engines would be somewhere near the plane.

But, why not ask someone that was there? ( ie a first responder )

Quote:

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

Read more: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking the Myths - Pentagon - Popular Mechanics

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... s-pentagon

The way I see it, for your conspiracy theory to have any credibility you need one of two things:

1/ Prove Allyn E. Kilsheimer was never there

or

2/ If he was there, that he is lying.

cheers Lou

Journeyman

Actually, neither of those alternatives describe the real situation. First you have a major problem with who this guy is.

First structural engineer to arrive... Oh really? So he got there on day 3, correct? See, nobody was allowed on site for at least 2 days. It's a part of the 'conspiracy' issues - the normal investigators could not get to do their jobs until the US Govt organised to remove all the evidence.

Plus even on wiki it says he got there at 5pm - the problem is we have any number of photos of the area BEFORE he got there that tell us he was NOT wandering around picking up pieces of an aircraft.

Also one of the major puzzles to the Pentagon incident is that NONE of the remains have aircraft ID markings on them, so if your guy, Kilsheiner claims to have seen such markings, either he IS a liar or he removed vital evidence from the scene... apparently 2 days after everyone else failed to find them.

So... which alternative do you want...? The US Govt is lying about how they conducted the cleaner process? Or your johnny-come-lately is parroting the official line?

See, there is a major problem with every part of the 9/11 attacks. IF the official story is true there should be incontrovertible evidence to reassure everyone that a CIA employee in a cave in Afghanistan could orchestrate a coordinated attack on some of the most secure property in the US using amateur pilots performing impossible flight characteristics and achieving impossible results.

Unfortunately that evidence has NEVER been presented. The buildings fall impossibly, the PA flight creates an impossible wreckage site and the Pentagon attack does impossible things.

So yes, Lou, your Allyn Kilsheimer is lying. Like so many others he is contributing to a set of lies that has people hating muslims and giving their own leaders a free pass... even when Physics says their leaders are lying.

You will note not one of the nay-sayers has provided any Physics to back their assertions of how the buildings fell. The Physics that says the buildings CANNOT fall at free fall speed is self-evident to anyone who did general science at a year 9 level... provided it was more than 20 years ago.

Here it is, quite plainly.

Those upper floors CANNOT fall in free fall. It is IMPOSSIBLE. By the official fabrication at least. It IS possible if someone is blowing out the floors below in a staged demolition. And Physics says that is the ONLY way it can happen.

The evidence agrees - you can see the charges going off below the falling floors - one has to wonder how unfamiliar with Science one has to be to imagine how fires can burn DOWN faster than they burn UP?

The plane smashing into the ground in Pennsylvania can not possibly do it as the official account says - a 40º impact would have scattered debris all across the landscape - we KNOW this from every other plane crash. The impact in PA was vertical - a missile strike.

The impact into the Pentagon can not possibly have been a plane. The hole is too small, the scars on the building don't match, the engines are missing, there are no scars on the grass from the engines that MUST have scoured the grass for the hole to be where it is, the 'disintegrating' aluminium tube somehow managed to penetrate multiple reinforced concrete walls while the non-disintegrating engines somehow vanished...

Seriously, the list of oddities is far longer than the list of possibles. The planes hitting the towers and the Pentagon performed, FROM THE OFFICIAL FLIGHT DATA, impossible feats. The official flight data disagrees with the physical evidence.

It goes on and on - so much wrongness, so few people able to rationally think through the Science that says they are being lied to on a massive scale by people who have MANY reasons to lie to them.

I was going to let this thread die the death - those who are willing to think it through had enough here; those who prefer to believe Authority telling them what to think would not be altered. So blame Charlie - he decided to slag me off on another thread and so I came back here.

If you don't bring physics here, don't bother to answer. Tell me the SCIENCE behind your opinions and we can have a conversation.

Journeyman

Hey, here you go, here's a report from someone who CAN be checked up on, a reporter who was there hours before Kilsheimer turned up...

Quote:

JAMIE MCINTYRE: From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.

The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.

Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed.

Apparently, Kilsheimer 'helped coordinate the emergency response' and 'held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?' - and he did all that AFTER 5PM when he got there.

Makes one wonder what all those fire crews and other people were standing around waiting for... doesn't it? I mean, given from the angle of the sun it is VERY clear at what time all the things happened.

I mean seriously, have you LOOKED at the KCE website? It's distinctly non-functional for a 'structural engineering company' dating from so long ago. (39 years is claimed currently on the site, which is strange because they also claim "In the early 1960s, KCE was the 1st to use the slurry wall in the U.S." i.e considerably more than 39 years back)

Kilsheimer's profile link on the site (and there are no others) links out to a zoominfo page wanting you to set up a profile. In fact there is a link stating 'Contact people in this company' and it also goes to a blank zoominfo signup page. None of their claimed projects is linked and if you try to find out it is continual dead ends.

The ip address for KCE also delivers strange result - a tracert goes not to their site but to the WhOIS host... and yet the KCE website is still 'live' (as in you get pages when you go there) but a whois search gives rather different results. Here's just a few of the websites listed as being hosted at the KCE ip address... tipbodog88.com, safari-photographer.com, laconfluencia.com, ephin.com, guineafowl.com, dunnpr.com. Hm, websites ranging from Vancouver to Patagonia... Can you spell spoofing?

Why would a structural engineering company be spoofing ip addresses? How come the CEO doesn't have multiple listings in Google and his 'contact' links give blank sign-up pages?

So yes, I call Allyn Kilsheimer a liar. I doubt, given the lack of google results on his bio, that he actually exists. I think he is a creation and so is his 'history' involving a company with no credentials other than a fake website.

trout

Journeyman wrote:

So yes, I call Allyn Kilsheimer a liar. I doubt, given the lack of google results on his bio, that he actually exists. I think he is a creation and so is his 'history' involving a company with no credentials other than a fake website.

I find this funny, considering you stated on another thread about people not checking their facts.

A quick google search shows that he was an expert witness in a legal case:

Quote:

Titan Stone, Tile & Masonry Inc. v. Hunt Construction Co., Federal Insurance Co., Fidelity and Deposit of Maryland, and United States Fidelity and Guaranty Co.

I suppose it must have been an imaginary case.

http://verdictsearch.com/experts-search ... r&state=DC

But, you can google his company:

Quote:

K C E S T R U C T U R A L E N G I N E E R S , P. C.

1818 JEFFERSON PLACE, N.W. · WASHINGTON, D.C. 20036

phone 202-833 8624

Even better, you can ring him, I did..

The number we need to use is : 0011-1-202-833-8624

cheers Lou

ccBear

Just remember boys we ALL live in a locker at some alien transport facility. Or are you going to tell me the men in black do not exist.

Yavimaya

This thread started out good, now it needs a name change.

Sleepe

Just take out the "of information".

Yavimaya

I would have left the "of" and changed "information" to something else.

Sleepe

Yes, but I got Moderated for saying bullshit so I try to be nice now.

Yavimaya

lol fair enough, im not that subtle or that gentile, but i try to be "not too offensive".

PLJ

Journeyman wrote:

Here it is, quite plainly.

Those upper floors CANNOT fall in free fall. It is IMPOSSIBLE. By the official fabrication at least. It IS possible if someone is blowing out the floors below in a staged demolition. And Physics says that is the ONLY way it can happen.

The evidence agrees - you can see the charges going off below the falling floors - one has to wonder how unfamiliar with Science one has to be to imagine how fires can burn DOWN faster than they burn UP?

The plane smashing into the ground in Pennsylvania can not possibly do it as the official account says - a 40º impact would have scattered debris all across the landscape - we KNOW this from every other plane crash. The impact in PA was vertical - a missile strike.

The impact into the Pentagon can not possibly have been a plane. The hole is too small, the scars on the building don't match, the engines are missing, there are no scars on the grass from the engines that MUST have scoured the grass for the hole to be where it is, the 'disintegrating' aluminium tube somehow managed to penetrate multiple reinforced concrete walls while the non-disintegrating engines somehow vanished...

Seriously, the list of oddities is far longer than the list of possibles. The planes hitting the towers and the Pentagon performed, FROM THE OFFICIAL FLIGHT DATA, impossible feats. The official flight data disagrees with the physical evidence.

It goes on and on - so much wrongness, so few people able to rationally think through the Science that says they are being lied to on a massive scale by people who have MANY reasons to lie to them.

For what it is worth, I am in complete agreement with you on this matter, Journeyman. It is a classic example of a 'Reichstag fire'.

RupertofOZ

I too will admit that when I watched the towers collapse... my very first thought was.. WTF... that looks like a controlled demolition...

I don't know enough about the physics to say it was, or wasn't....

But the pentagon "plane crash" explanation... is one I just can't come to grips with... all the people who were around.. all the camera survellience.... and they only footage that seems to be available.... doesn't show a plane skidding across the lawn into the building IMO....

And why were/aren't there 100's of reports of a "plane" descending to ground level... and crashing into the pentagon....

I have real doubts about the pentagon... and concerns about the towers as well...

Sleepe

This started off with bananas; how is theorising about this going to help with piles?

Technically you can *sigh* in the Venting corner, but I prefer it if you have a realistic gripe about something.

pt49

I appreciate the bananas advice in the 1st post, but in my opinion the rest of this thread is just crap, and this thread ought to be locked.

SuperVeg

Maybe we need an "off-topic" subforum, that doesn't appear in recent activity or something.
That way the people that don't like things don't have to go there...and read things they don't like

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Piles of Information

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