Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Very interesting discussion and varied points of view.

I have the dream to "break free" but it's MY DREAM so it's MY RESPONSIBILITY.
I do not expect the world to change around me , I need to change things so my dream can become reality.

It's easy to blame "the multi-national comapnies" or other bull excuses,why not USE THEIR system to get what YOU want.

About 15 years ago it occured to me that certain profit generating systems where likely going to continue to grow at least in my life-time. What to do ???? Sick of Bank fees BY BANK SHARES. Yep, I started collecting safe bank-shares , nicefully tax paid dividends and good capital growth. Does that mean I've become part of this so called multi-national conspiracey NAHH it means Ibegan to use the system that I cannot change,in order to get the personal change I want.
Next Chia took offff,,,ok mass / cheap products . Invest IN CHINA,,no not me , I like my larger investments close to home. But Chinese need raw materials to make these billions of dolls/toy cars ETC ETC. AHH Biggest miner in the world BHP , so I started to slowly amass BHP shares.

Even after the recent market correction/mini crash I have near enough money for my dream.
USE the system DON'T let the system use you.

Give me a big slap in the face but I got to page four and just thought I'd add (probably covered but) why are a lot of people trying to rid themselves of our societies?

Years ago (and I know I'm not that old) I build a small house with my wife and set out on 'leaving it all' only to realise my dependence on people. Let face it we most of the time are very dependent on the relationships we have and the various benefits they bring, and might I add that having owned rats (wild caught), 'our race' most of the time has very little to do with there main driving behaviours.

I now realise that 'my' efforts are better spent developing my love for my family and learning to see that life present what I need and what I need generally doesn't reflect what I 'think' I need.


To end... There is no appending doom, we are all here now, and the more creative we can be (this forum etc) the more shining lights there are for those that are confused by fear and doom. At the end of the day the loss of sustainable live on earth for humans (which we have been living up till now, but is becoming unsustainable) is of no concern to non-humans, so for our preservation we must trust and develop the communities many have the urge to abandon.





btw: I have never made port, but geez its good, three cheers for us!!!

I am very connected to society - one of the nice things about the Internet. And I am connected well with the locals - and a rural area has more community than often cities do.

One can break free without sacrificing the things that are important. Even though we live in another country now, we actually have more contact with our children than we did when we lived in the USA (both are grown). They like visiting here more than they did where we lived before.

The over-consumerism of our societies we have pretty much left. I don't agree with it. There are only so many non-renewable resources to go around, when they are gone, they are gone. If I didn't need them, to waste them seems pretty selfish. I even ride a bike when I can - though we have plenty of vehicles in the business. It keeps me in shape too - which I guess offsets the savings since I will probably live longer...

I didn't leave society to get away from society, but to do something more interesting and satisfying - and I think that is the key.

I agree CRTreeDude. It not about leaving society. It about leaving a consumer life style that uses and abuses everything for profit. We will always need other people.

Right on the mark, DanDMan.

Ditto... it's a bout the mindset.... or perhaps more correctly the mindless-set of modern consumerism.....

People, family etc we need.... but just how much of the plastic crap, bling and tinsel of modern living and appearances do we really need

http://flickr.com/photos/pshab/422895344/

"go to work, send your kids to school
follow fashion, act normal
walk on the pavements, watch T.V.
save for your old age, obey the law
Repeat after me: I am free"

I think to break free - you might actually have to have your second childhood - perhaps some of us never left our first. What I mean is this, when we are kids, we think we are indestructable and somewhere along the way, we find out we aren't. And that is when we start getting afraid. When you are afraid - you freeze.

And then some people learn for certain they are going to die eventually anyway and manage to recapture that freedom of youth. Freedom really is simply not being afraid of death or other things.

Otherwise we are held in a jail of our own fears of what might happen.

The truth is, something may well happen - and eventually, the worst will happen. But, I for one will enjoy every minute between those happenings instead of wasting all the years inbetween the bad times anticipating them.

or, to quote Alfred E. Newman "What, me worry?"

Most people will never choose freedom, and that is fine. It is their choice. What really bugs be is when laws are passed that make it even harder or illegal for me to choose to live free in various respects. Take the seat belt law for example. I was watching an old episode of bat man at my inlaws (I dont watch TV at home any more) and before it was law in the middle of a pursuit they stopped to have a discussion of buckle up for safety. This was like,what, in the 70's? .. Gee Wizz... Now it's the law that if I don't buckle up they will steal money from me and if I refuse to pay they will steal my freedom from me and if I refuse to let them steal my freedom then will kill me; all because I did not protect my life with a seat belt..

I have actually heard people say its wrong to no not wear a seat belt. Since when did it become a moral issue? If everyone else wants seat belt laws to protect their insurance prices then let me sign a waver that my insurance and theirs will not cover injuries to me resulting from me not having a seat belt on, and let me choose to break free if I want to..

Anyway that was just a simple example of some law that makes freedom of choice harder.

As to the flicker link. I have known so many people that want something else, but all their life the have been trained to be a citizen and a consumer. They go years in suburbia and act and feel half dead. So, if some kids want to choose their life directions, good for them. Now, I really feel education is very important. It can make difference between the third world being a place of starvation and suffering or a paradise, but what kind of education are you getting? Whats with the attitude that says if I dont have a degree from give me money incorporated then I dont know anything and I'm not smart. I cant tell you how many educated kids fresh out of collage I can not hire becasue all they know is that religion and republicans are bad; they can't do anything. I'd rather hire a kid who has been playing with computer for years than a person with a computer science degree! My chemistry teacher had a phd in chemical engineering and yet he could teach anyone to do his job in a month. Theres just something wrong with even the way people are educated. The methods are old and outdated; and way to expensive.

Who ever said happiness comes from a house with a white picket fence, playing keep up with the neighbors, borrowing money, paying intrest and working a job ? Someone has here in the us! Or is it just human greed and impatience to get what you cant currently afford? You know the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence... There is nothing wrong with choosing to play a flute on street corners and living out in the open, if that is the choice people make. Theres nothing wrong with living as a family in a grass hut either. Yet some how those people are looked down upon because they are not productive citizens. I like what one person said the flicker comments



I can not tell you how many people I have met that have reached their retirement and regret the course of their life. Yet I have met a few people who have nothing by everyones standards and at even 80 they are happy and content. How many of us can say we are content with who we are, where we are, and what we have; even if we have nothing?

i agree with dan on the seat belt analogie. I am fined for not wearing a seat belt because the govt is concerned about my health. Yet i can drive and injest 240 known carcinogens in diesel emmissions and the govt permits that.

Looming Cactus, I watched "Bill Moyer's Journal" last night and ironically I thought of you and your statements.
One of the pieces aired was about a Vermont senator who felt that Washington had become too isolated from the needs of the ordinary working people, so he asked the people from his state to send him e-mails of their lives economically right now. He received over 600 letters from his state and across the U.S. He read some of the letters on the senate floor.
I have put a link but don't read it unless you are prepared to be depressed- it is very heartbreaking what is actually happening out there. It's called the "Collaspe of the Middle Class: Letters from Vermont and America".

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/files/mid ... let%20.pdf

Certainly disturbing stuff "Collaspe of the Middle Class: Letters from Vermont and America".
problem is its not just the US that is having its problems. I work in a remote town in WA and have seen the same issues raised by its residents. Big issues needing bigger solutions.

On another note the seatbelt issue is one that i feel needs to be looked at, I dont have any problem with people not wearing a seatbelt, but when they get in an accident they expect us nurses to do everything we can for them (australia has a public health system and paid for by taxpayers). The financial cost (to the public) is often great with road trauma and the emotional cost to families can be downright disasterous. No matter how accurate a statement is, its still sucks to have to tell a 10 year old that mommy is dead and daddy will be in a wheel chair forever because they were thrown from their car due to not wearing seatbelts. Health is one of those things we need to take our own responsibility for.
(wow, all a bit heavy, but i guess i have to be a bit passionate about it.)

Cactus, I think there has been a lot of good tips previously and as one who wants to move off the grid but still keep a good grip on family (and sanity) it is a long road ahead. We can all take a lesson from APers in that it dosen't matter how you go about it, really its what works for you, and if it dosen't work right the first time just keep going till it does.

Yes, but no one should have the right to take away your money, freedom, or life because of laws that assume you want to play their game(in the us anyway). There needs to be an opt out option. If I bust my head and have opted out then let me take the outcome and expense.

very often there is no opt out option because the bulk of the people then opt out. When something does happen, they think well i did not plan on that, i need help, give me money and give me care. Then you hear about some sob story on the TV. in the end ee end up taking care of them regardless.

Very very few people actually mean what they say, and go out to do it. Then, when the conciquences come they stick by what they said, and keep on going.

Not saying i dissagree with ya DanDMan. Just one interpritation of why i think they do things like that.

But i guess you could always choose to take the bike rather then the car. No seat belts on bikes. or go back to the good old days of horses

Im sure no one cares, but I recorded some of my ramblings the other day and posted it to you tube http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ymlsxj8aNFw

In there is a quick flyby of aquaponics.....