Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Bush is always up to something- some things he has done I didn't hear about until I started to look at the possibility of moving to another country. Guess what I ran into, on a real estate webpage of all things! So looked around to verify if it was true or not. I think it is.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4289224.stm
I know there is alot of instability in South America and oil and dicators but then I read the rest.

http://kendallian.blogspot.com/2007/04/ ... aguay.html

Why would Bush want to move to Paraguay and it is interesting to note that the entire country sits on the WORLD'S LARGEST FRESHWATER SOURCE. Makes you wonder if he knows something that the rest of us don't.

Subtle terrorization of the American public. It has been happening for years in the UK too where the rest of my family live. Acts of terrorism now make London the most watched and monitored city in the world.

But I believe this all to be a global threat. The sophisticated societies have to be intimidated into submission first. I seriously believe that the funding and political pressure used to bring "democracy" into South Africa - while overdue in terms of the atrocities of apartheid - and I do not in any way minimise or excuse the horrors of those times - played right into the hands of a more diabolical global agenda. South Africa under the stubborn hand of an Afrikaner government was not easily manipulated. But European - or should I say Caucasion - control of Rhodesia and South Africa fell in the end to intense world pressure. Look at Rhodesia - aka Zimbabwe - today. Once known as the bread basket of Africa. Now a wasteland of broken people ravaged by cholera.

Most coverage on the SA news today is the internal squabbles of the ruling ANC party, the lack of crime control, or corruption at all levels from the top down. External control would be mere child's play......

Destabilization of an area and societies in a constant state of critical alert is the mark of our age. "Protection" is the the trojan horse.

I believe that though most has been initiated in the States decades ago, central control of this insidious agenda will move to the EU. Destabilization of the dollar will be the primary method used. The USA will become less involved globally in efforts to stabilize its free-falling economy and the EU will take up the slack. "Terrorism" will be fought from the EU.... and who doesn't want the terrorist controlled?....

All,
I do believe that this type of issue will become more prevelent. The US is heading this way, as someone else posted, there is a great lack of personnal responsibility in this country!

I so beleive that if hard working people find themselves in a hard time they should totally take advantage of our welfare system, to which they have paid into. I also beleive that we should help children who are not responsible for the situation they are in. And also the infirm, mentally, physically, etc- those who CANNOT take care of themselves. I also beleive that people who want to better themselves, get out of where they are, pull themselves up by their boot straps... they can use my tax dollars to do that. Everyone else- GET A FRICK'N JOB!!

I also beleive that we should gear up to take care of ourselves and our families/friends (It is the responsible thing to do.). Some might say, "But this is self-centered, and selfish and shows a lack of concern for humanity." I say that it will be hard to help our "fellow man" if we ourselves are looking for our next meal!

I did a little Goggle work ("Manna Storehouse") and discovered another side of the Manna Storehouse story. This is not meant to rebut the orginal posting, or to lighten the implications of the situation but does seem a little less dramatic and might help us center more towards the truth. The URL is: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12 ... ffice.html I did not copy the whole thing.

At one point the article says that the Health Dept tried to inspect the Storehouse in November but the staff turned them away. It reminded me of the Waco, Tx- Koresh -thing. The government tried an easier way early on, but they were denied access so then we later have a travesty. I think that if we are not doing anything illegal we should becarful about pushing the issue? What if the Storehouse had allowed the inspection, taken the outcome THEN hired a lawyer and fought the fines?

Anyway sometimes there is reason to swim against the current and sometimes it brings greater focus on what we may not want closely examined...?

When the time comes it will be a hard row to hoe.
_______________________________

"Manna Storehouse is an organic and all-natural food co-op on Ohio 303, according to the store's Web site. The site lists the store as selling dry goods, household items and frozen meats.

At the same time, store policies say it does not sell to the public -- only to members of the co-op who pay a membership fee. Openly proclaiming it is not licensed and does not plan to obtain a license, Manna has members affirm that they "take full responsibility for their own health, health choices, food choices and food quality."

County officials say the business cannot operate that way.

Assistant County Prosecutor Scott Serazin said any business that sells perishable foods must be licensed and follow regulations covering those who store and supply food. There is no exception in the law for a co-op, Serazin said, and Manna cannot ask customers to waive safety regulations

"You just can't have that," he said. "There has to be some kind of regulation and inspection of food."

The Lorain County Health Department tried to inspect the Storehouse in November 2007 but the family told inspectors to leave the property. Jacqueline Stowers wrote the department the next month that Manna does not need a license and that the inspection was an attempt to "cunningly coerce unlawful entry into our house and private property."

In September, the county asked the Ohio Department of Agriculture for assistance, and an agent purchased eggs at the store. When agents learned of a possible delivery of meat, they obtained a warrant to search for evidence of the business's activities.

Serazin said charges are likely later this week. He also said that if the Stowerses try to reopen without obtaining a license, he would likely go to court to block it.

"Protection of health is one of the important roles of government," Serazin said. "That's what this is all about." "

[quote="anthony.faircloth"]All,
I do believe that this type of issue will become more prevelent. The US is heading this way, as someone else posted, there is a great lack of personnal responsibility in this country!

I so beleive that if hard working people find themselves in a hard time they should totally take advantage of our welfare system, to which they have paid into. I also beleive that we should help children who are not responsible for the situation they are in. And also the infirm, mentally, physically, etc- those who CANNOT take care of themselves. I also beleive that people who want to better themselves, get out of where they are, pull themselves up by their boot straps... they can use my tax dollars to do that. Everyone else- GET A FRICK'N JOB!!

Agreed and my sentiments exactly! but the health dept using swat tactics Overzealous OVERKILL! Banks don't want credit unions. Supermarkets don't want roadside vendors selling turnip greens and hog cracklins along side the road. Feed stores sell yard eggs. This is more about compitition and revenue than public safety! State and local governments are missing out on sales taxes! Good thing the children didn't have any toy guns!

The Guardian, Monday 23 October 2006 ............. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oc ... omphillips
Yes. Would be interesting to know his real reasons.

Tony: Interesting. Can't help wondering if this is not just "official speak" against the weight of public outcry......

And an excerpt from The Bovine.


Stowers tell their story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdLxMKux ... r_embedded

Ohio’s Buckeye Institute for Public Policy Solutions is taking legal action on behalf of the Stowers of Manna Storehouse Coop. Here’s a statement about the case published today on the Buckeye Institute website.:



Read David E. Gumpert’s thoughtful analysis of these latest developments on his The Complete Patient blog

Here is the family's own thoughts on their blog:
http://steveandpaularunyan.blogspot.com ... pdate.html

I'm glad to see some legal filings on their behalf. But I believe criminal charges not just civil suits should also be filed against the ODA, and the agents individually. If military officers order a solder to break the law, they are not to be followed. (of course they usually are)but police/government agents should be held to at least that standard. And if they abuse that power on their own or by following orders the should pay for their crimes.

Chelle, when I watched your video I ran across these!
He is somewhat simple minded and says some stupid stuff sometimes, but you gotta love his candor!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLsx_vei ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovv4OV2 ... re=related

I suspect that every 2-3 hundred year in any society either the dogs allow themselves to be muzzled, and get use to the muzzle, or they continue to struggle against the leash and the beatings until the break free and attack the master. It all depends on the values of the people.

I also have read that collapse of any society is inevitable. I think its a cyclic thing and that it has nothing to do with technology, or any one thing. It is just a "natural cycle" that always happens.

The best sited society would be the Egyptians who for their day had technology (chariots) and rule of law, art, writen language, engineering marvels, etc. They lasted for around 3000 years, but just a few hundred years after their collapse, when Napoleans army was collecting egyptian artifacts, no Egyptian could read hiroglyphics.

But remember, societies collapse, communities survive.

Just My Two Cents,

Tony

The collapse of any society is the fault of their government- they either fail to protect their people and another society conquers them or they are considered corrupted- by money, power, military- or ineffectual and their own people rebel against them. Very few societies have died off from starvation, although it has happened- Easter Island comes to mind and the Pueblo Indians and other soicieties, mostly American Indians have died off from introduced diseases that they had no immunity against. I don't count conquered societies that are absorbed by their conquerers and as generations pass, cease to exist.
Not one type of government has survived in the long run, although some have had runs for 1000's of years. Our democratic government is no more sustainable than the Romans, the Egyptians, the Chinese dynasty, the Aztecs or the Nazis. It's just a question of when and I think that "when" is accelarating. Sadly, I diagree with your second statement that societies collapse but communities survive- in a true collaspse, there will be many casualites and communities, as we know them, will not survive, only a lucky few will- they will rebuild and create new communities and eventually a new society, as it has always been through time. But it will be such a great waste, as it has been in the past- the loss of people, safety and knowledge. A society is built up in stages- first the basic needs must be met- food, water, shelter, safety, family- only then can it expand to evetually include science, the arts and specilization- the highest forms in our society- these things need a stable society.
I see our own society and that of the rest of the world sliding back to the basic needs. This forum is a classic example of those fears- we are trying to create a sustainable food supply, apart from the world's, we are trying to conserve water- whether it is a concious thought or not, we know that water scarcity is coming- and we talk about our families and our fear of not keeping them safe- whether it's providing them with food or the fear of a heavy handed government because no government, throughout the history of time, has ever been benign.

Hee! Hee! Lovely man! Says what he wants to say regardless of his audience. If he were here I'd vote him in! Had Fox News by the tail there.... no matter how hard they tried to steer him! Has the guts to really lead......... and a clear conviction .... not so common these days in politics.

Chelle here is another big brother one I Know you would be interested in!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIfAHWfSypU&NR=1

Interesting excerpt BRB. I watch CBN news almost daily. Usually get to hear what is not reported in the mainstream media. They do more in-depth reporting.

NAIS. Is what Angie spoke of earlier. I keep hearing of it time and again. Constantly declared not mandatory but individuals are being forced into it. Vetinary services needed are another route that ensures the treated animal is registered on the system. Again the trojan horse is "protection" ...... this time against disease outbreak and protection to the food supply. So reasonable. Wish I could trust the agenda put forward as that alone. Gives me the willies...

Was very interested to see DIGITAL ANGEL and VERICHIP linked here too...... Never heard of the chip causing cancer in animals before. That woman's discomfort with her chip was a first too........

Here is an article from Mother Earth News about a fellow who as a small organic farmer has dealt with government regulation. His book is called "Everything I want to do is illegal".
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustaina ... rview.aspx

The beginning of a new "religion" to sort out expected catastrophic inevitabilities....... Change the paradigm of how man thinks about himself with extreme controls in place to facilitate mankind's move toward this better place.... friendly fascism.......



Whole article is here...........http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/pub ... 2715.shtml

Quote from CHANGING IMAGES OF MAN.....

I love this article BRB. First because it really spoke to me when he said............

And then because it is such an honest-to-goodness discussion of what is really happening at a grass-roots level........ and he has some real answers about how to live as a farmer. But it takes time and skill....

Go underground?........

I for one would be happy to miss out on this kind of excitement. We are all grist to the mill to a very greedy and powerful agenda


Wish - with all my heart - it were not true .....
Thanks for the posting BRB. Mother Earth News is a favourite read.