Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

"sustainable polulation" means that if every person lived comfortably ie. without sickeness or poverty, you would need a bare minimum 0.5 hectares of resources to sustain them. There is only 10.8 billion hectares of ecological feasible land on earth. Divide by six billion gives us 1.8 hectares so yes if we all live equally we can sustain life. However when the average Australian consumes 7.6 Hectares, Average Western European 6 Hectares and the average North American 9.6 hectares. The available land is decreasing by 10 million hectares each year through erosion and polution. Plus the earths popluation is expected to double in fifty years, which means more housing and larger cities. Therefore in 2050 we could expect a maximum of 5 billion hectares of available land, that leaves 0.4 hectares each. That is half of the average person in India. Do the math and kiss all the luxuries good bye. If the sustainabilty is relative to anything it is our greed, selfishness and our waste.

..depressing...

gnash, I hear what you're saying. I have one, before I found out about peak oil and before I really really understood global warming. I want more (three always felt right, but now I'm not sure, it may only be 2), especially as I don't want my daughter to be an only child (and adoption is a simplistic suggestion, made by people who either haven't looked into it or can buy pretty much anything they want, or don't really want kids anyway). However the thought of what they will/may have to face makes me a bit sick. I am trying to raise a compassionate and environmentally aware human who will hopefully help break the cycle.

And nah I don't think we have a sustainable population, I think the only reason it's being sustained atm is fossil fuels which as we all know are screwing over the planet.

ETA: I am not against adoption, sorry if it came across that way! I love the idea of it, it's just not as easy as people seem to think.

Go Tim, you came through with the figures, i like it

I also like that you defined your terms ie "comfortably"

So it would seem that on the current path we are unsustainable before 2050. And as available land is diminishing due to errosion and pollution then this means not only do we have to CAP population at pre 2050 levels, but we have to activly REDUCE POPULATION after that due to reduced land availability due to said reasons................

OR

We not only REDUCE the loss of available land (now we're back at capping 2050 population)

Go one step further and RECLAIM currently unavailable land ( Now we're at some point BEYOND 2050 population) (there is a great video on one of the permi sites on a dude that has re-greened basically an area in the desert)

Add to that getting pepople to pull their heads out of their collective arses to bring the required land per Aussie from 7.6 hectares to something more reasonable.

Humans take the easy out every time.............so i can see the drive behind the "stop breeding brigade" its much harder than the alternative..............

I absolutly love how an innocent post on alternative energy gives rise to thought provocing topics like this.

Top stuff

I found this site just now, (would have saved me raking the brain... it hurts)

Work out what your ecological foot print (land use) is here:

http://www.myfootprint.org/

Post your results.... be honest. Mine is 5.6, which means if we all live like me, we would need an extra 2.11 earths.

Whats wrong with the easy way? Looking for an easier way is what got me into self sufficency in the first place, through an intrest in the idea of permaculture being easier to look after than a traditional vegie garden. Easier means less energy required.

Reclaiming the desert is the destruction of another unique and diverse part of the eco sytem. Why are we not reclaimiing the space on our roofs, for starters, and the thousands of km of wasted space within our citys and suburbs. I believe that is ultimately what AP will do in the future. Look in your backyard some crazy bastard has started already!

I checked out the footprint site and I came out with a 4, 2.6 being allocated for food, which is bullshit because it does not account for the fact that the red meat I eat is 90% kangaroo (not farmed) and there is no allowance for the solar panels or water recycling unit etc. I was never very good at tests anyway!

HG

41 and need 9.2 planets, Thank goodness for space exploration.

Australians have shown themselves to be no less wasteful than Americans and, in some situations, we actually outconsume them.

Ironically, the last great burst of anxiety over hyper-consumption (before the currentl one) occurred in the late 1960's and '70's. Back then it was the baby boomers doing the ranting......the same crowd that now own the big houses, cars and boats.....the biggest consuming generation in history.

My point is that we humans love to talk but are much less inclined to act.

By the way, until we all actually sit down to eat our own fish and salad, we are all still a bigger part of the problem than we are of the solution.

Isn't this so much more fun than belting cats and lighting fires?

8.1, we need 4.5 earths for me

I'm a sales rep so drive a lot!

LOL, sure sure.

Yes. I did some back-of-an-envelope calculations when my son was born (about 11 months ago). Those calculations are one of the things that sparked my interest in sustainable (and self-sufficient) living. I want my son to have a good life.

There is a concept known as "Carrying Capacity" - the ability of a given geographical area to support human life. Quite simply we are degrading the carrying capacity of the Earth. Causes include global warming, salination and land degredation due to over-intensive use, etc. I won't bore you with details - if you are interested, do a google on "Agricultural Decline" or "Collapse of fisheries".

As a result the concept that 1 person = 0.5 hectares may not be quite true (I guess nobody here suggested it was).

So to summarize: The population is going up (the rate of growth is slowing, but it will hit 10 billion before the growth stops) - but the carrying capacity of Earth is going down. Those two trends will intersect. After they intersect the carrying capacity will continue going down.

Luckily for us (in Australia) carrying capacity actually varies from place to place. Some areas are closer to the limit than others. Here in Australia we have less of a problem than (say) our AP friend in Bali.

I won't bore you with my guesstimates - I will just say that I am glad that I am in Australia, some of the other countries may be heading for crunches.

David C.

Becoming very interesting.. & enlightening, as to what other people think.

I agree that some view adoption as a very simplistic thing. However, I do not. I would be (& am already) preparing to lobby the Gov't over adoptions within & into Australia. I understand the associated costs, time & effort required.. & just because I decide oneday that I want kids, doesn't mean that I'm going to take the easy way out (for me, not for anyone else, I'm laying all this on myself.. other people should have their own kids if they want them! ) & have my own, when I know there are so many out there that really need a family, nutrition, health care.. water. I'm also prepared to move countries if all else failed, if I wanted kids that badly & couldn't adopt (for whatever reasons) here. The initial cost, to me, of adopting, is comparable to the formative years of a child's life.. I don't think I'd want a new born, so the costs that I wouldn't pay in the child's formative years, I believe I could afford to carry out the adoption process.. Does that make sense? I've researched it, & have come up with a fairly basic understanding of the requirements, but they've allowed me to sort it out in my head.

Hmm.. eating non-farmed Kangaroo eh? If we all did that, they'd be like the whales, & be pretty close to extinction before anyone even noticed. That's not necessarily being environmentally friendly, if you take the view of 'if everyone did it...'.

TimC, it's very true, "kiss all the luxuries goodbye". I feel that we (humans) will have to do this somewhere down the track. Whether it's reactive (must do it as there is no other alternative) or proactive (making the shift, being more ecologically & socially conscious) remains to be seen.

It's not all doom & gloom! It is possible! Look around you, look around this forum! People are already starting to make changes to their lives, that will radiate out to others around them. It's fascinating.. & encouraging.

My footprint is 4.4... If everyone were like me.. 2.4 planets. At least I'm not up in the standard 7.6Ha, like the average Aussie... But that doesn't mean I can't do better (I'm already starting to now!!! )

Found some interesting things:

(Sorry if this has already been posted!) Bill McKibben in his book, "End of Nature" says that the average American mouthful travels around 200 miles, and for 1 calorie of food, it uses 36 calories in its production and getting it to the table. (from what I've read, Aussies aren't far behind, & I'm agreeing with whomever it was who has already posted similar).

Jules Petty, in a study, indicates that low input, small scale farming produces more than big scale farming. He believes that around 8 acres is the best size. In the colder parts of the US, it is said that 1/10 of an acre can support 10 people with 3 meals a day, with no chemicals. This includes greenhouses with fish takes & hydroponics (sound familar people?!?!?! ). (Also, he says Food from Farmer's Markets have 10 x less fuel cost, and offer 10 x more conversation, which in turn enhances well being. I can believe that! )

Anyway, it's food for thought... people can rip to pieces different studies & writings etc... or we can tuck the information away, examine it intelligently & make our changes.

I really like that we can all have a really good, intelligent discussion here.. it's a wonderful thing.

Hopefully Aus will have the the first large scale solar tower under construction next year (200MW). Final stages of feasibility underway

All these different writings are different and express a very diverse range of facts and opinions... However they are all part of a giant puzzle which is esentially the survival of the earth. What links them all together is the great importance for the readers to act on it and to share the lessons learn't as they find a solution.

Take the AP segment on Gardening Australia we can split the viewers in to three categories. 1st group just watch it and don't really care less about it. 2nd group watches it and says: "That is such a great idea, there should be more people doing it." Then they remain on the couch for the rest of the night and do not act. The 3rd group (us) imediately looks up the website or finds a peice of paper and starts jotting down ideas. Whether or not they have a system in place yet, they have taken positive action and made contributions even it is only one or two posts on this forum.

Regarding the carrying capacity of the earth, the current figures are based on current technology and argricultural practices. Wheat, Sheep, Cattle etc. are all extensive agriculture, meaning they take less work over a larger area. Its production density is small. Compare that to intensive agriculture, eg. grapes, aquaculture it occurs over a small area, usually requiring more work and in turn delivers a higher production density. However the latter form of agriculture comes at a higher cost for labour, equiptment and land cost. Thus the price of the produce goes up. Therfore in order increase the carrying capacity of the earth, farmer would have to switch to more intensive farming practices, at a greater cost to them, the produce costs more and as a result the economy shifts.

In fact the Earth could not possibly support 10 Billion using current practices. You have to make the assumptions you outline to get to that pop. However degradation of carrying capacity impacts on this. Possible energy shortages (due to Peak OIl) would further degrade the situation. It is impossible to put numbers on these things, but there is (at least in my mind) a good chance that the two graphs will intersect at some time in the next 3 decades.

As I mentioned, carrying capacity varies from region to region, so problems are likely to emerge in some areas before others. It will be up to the rest of us to find ways to help. AP certainly strikes me as a way.