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PostPosted: Feb 8th, '09, 13:43 
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Angie wrote:
In keeping with the orginal posting about a milk raid, here is another one. Two versions of the same story.

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2 ... raw-dairy/

Did you see this comment posted below Angie? That is a fantastic idea! Until they find a way to stop anyone owning a cow of course.....
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Posted by janusjuris on December 21, 2008 at 5:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There was a case in Canada like this, but the defendant changed his business model to one where those who were interested in raw milk products were SOLD a cow that he then housed, fed and milked FOR them. They just stopped by and paid him rent and a service fee and picked up their products. He won in the Canadian supreme court. She ought to try that model here.

Might consider that myself! Stall rental and milking fees after selling the cow.... how's it that for entrepreneurial! There is a real need for raw milk. Some young children have zero tolerance for pasturised products.

New Buzz words .....Agricultural Crimes.... give me a break! Raw milk is good for you. I am allergic to dead.... sorry.... pasturised .... milk.

Quote:
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2009/1/30/law-enforcement-gone-ballistic-ventura-county-sheriff-relent.html.

"Detective Dominguez began his mission in early January by leading a posse of state and local regulators and arresting Sharon and parading her handcuffed in front of her three young children, before throwing her into the clinker overnight.

Yesterday, big tough guy Dominguez followed up on his mission to make America safe from the Sharon Palmers of the world by showing up at Sharon’s farm, with four of his buddies, armed not only with guns, but with a 14-page search warrant that, essentially, entitled him to take anything he wanted from her modest home, nearby barn, and car. (The warrant is signed by a “Judge of the Superior Court, Ventura Judicial District,” but his/her name isn’t spelled out and the signature is illegible.)"

Ain't he the man! Don't have to look far to find 'em.......


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PostPosted: Feb 9th, '09, 07:17 
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Over here you just buy shares in a cow. A once off payment of something like $10 and you are then a shareholder and are allowed to purchase un-molested milk. My partner did it not because she wanted the milk but because she wanted to help to protect peoples rights. They gave her a sort of membership card that she keeps in her purse and shows people the photo of her cow she named daisy. Sometimes we drive past the paddock of cows to see if she can spot Daisy but they all look the same. :roll:


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PostPosted: Feb 9th, '09, 21:12 
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I think the whole pasteurization thing is a bit crazy. However, seeing how dirty and profit driven many operations can be, I guess pasteurization is required. Or or at lease some consistent quality control. Dairy farmers here are scared to sell you raw milk, but if you sign a release promising to only use if for feeding other animals then some will let you have it raw.


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PostPosted: Feb 9th, '09, 22:14 
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A very good friend of mine said he grew up on raw cows milk and they never worried about disease. But responsible milking hygiene was part of the dairy so you have a point there DDM.

But unfortunately it is not just pasturisation that occurs but also homogenization. There are a number of negetive health risks to this artificially homogenised milk too. I have been looking into Goats milk as an alternative. Goats are naturally immune to TB. The protein molecule is more digestable to us too. It is often used as an alternative to lactose intolerance in young children. The fats also naturally homogenise without any negetive effects.
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Homogenisation involves forcing pressurised milk through a small orifice, thereby disrupting the milk fat globules into homogenised fat droplets (<1 µm; Figure 1) which now become coated by milk proteins (mainly caseins) instead of their native membrane (Michalski and Januel 2006). Homogenisation thus results in profound changes in milk structure. It has, therefore, been speculated that homogenisation might alter the health properties of cow's milk.
http://www.foodsciencecentral.com/fsc/ixid14898

Goat and cow milk compared....http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/ ... iedel.html. A milk goat might really be a good idea. Cheaper and easier to feed.... just difficult to contain!!! :D Even heard of them eating clothes off the washline...

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Pasteurization is the process which kills disease-causing and other desirable and undesirable bacteria or organisms. Milk is pasteurized by heating it to at least 160 degrees for 15 seconds, followed by rapid cooling to below 50 degrees. After pasteurization, the harmless lactic acid bacteria in milk are still present, but if the milk is not kept cold, the bacteria multiply rapidly and cause it to turn sour. However, the pasteurization process kills vitamins A, C, B-complex, and 20% of the iodine that raw milk provides. So why pasteurize milk if it kills all these beneficial bacteria? The answer is that it prevents diseases like tuberculosis, brucellosis, and Johannes. These diseases are more commonly found in cow milk rather than goat milk. Tuberculosis is a virus that usually affects the lungs. Brucellosis is a contagious disease. The disease is also known as a contagious abortion or Bang's disease. In humans it is known as undulant fever. Another disease commonly found in dairy cows is Johannes. Johannes, also known as chronic wasting disease, is a neurological disease that causes lesions in brains of infected animals. Pasteurized milk with no warning label has caused over 238,805 people to get sick from Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria, within a 15-year time span. Labeled raw milk has had no indication of illnesses reported from drinking raw milk.

Another process that cow milk must go through before retail is homogenization. Homogenization is the process in which fat globules are broken into a smaller form to keep it suspended within the milk. This process eliminates the natural separation of the cream rising to the top. Goat milk is naturally homogenized. It does not have to go through the homogenization process. It doesn't separate naturally. The outcome of naturally homogenized milk allows greater ease of digestibility. Digestion of goat milk is faster because the fat globules are much smaller than in cow milk.

Dr. Sherilyn Renya of Washington State indicated that it takes less than 20 minutes to digest goat milk and cow milk can take almost a full 24-hour day to be digested. Signs of digestive problems are "heavy" feelings on the stomach after cow milk consumption, swelling or extensive gas, and loss of appetite. Goat milk has 13% less lactose than cow milk and most people who are allergic to cow milk tend not to be allergic to goat milk. Allergies are more common in very young children. In an allergic reaction, histamines that are stored in body cells produce symptoms as described above. Most of these symptoms are directly related to the protein found in the milk source.

A popular therapy among pediatricians is the change to a vegetable protein soy-based formula; however, an estimated 20 to 50% of all infants with cow milk protein intolerance will also react adversely to soy proteins. Approximately 40% of all patients sensitive to cow milk proteins, tolerate goat milk proteins, possibly because lactalbumin is immunospecific between species.

The biochemical differences between goat milk and cow milk are based upon the various components of milk fat and fatty acids. Goat milk fat has normally 35% of medium chain fatty acids compared to cow milk at 17%. Besides their unique flavor, which has serious consequences in improper handling of goat milk, these medium chain fatty acids have become of considerable interest to medical professions.

The taste of goat milk is similar to the taste of cow milk. The diet of the animal has a lot to do with the taste of the milk. The cliché, "what comes out is based on what goes in" holds true, especially in animals fed for milk production. If goats and cows are managed similarly, the smell and taste of both milks is quite comparable. The milk composition in raw goat milk and raw cow milk is quite similar, with protein, vitamins C, and vitamins D on the same levels. However, vitamins A, B1 (thiamin), calcium, iron and phosphorus are higher in goat milk. Today, many health experts warn people over 40 to watch their cholesterol intake. Goat milk has 12 milligrams of cholesterol while cow milk has 15 milligrams of cholesterol. Raw goat milk is sweeter in taste because it has more butterfat than pasteurized cow milk. Butterfat contains vitamins A and D, which is partly diluted from the pasteurization process.

To sum things up, there are more than 200,000 documented cases of human illness from pasteurized cow milk over a 15 year time-frame. Similarly, the raw goat milk industry has not had any reported cases. Goat milk has been medically proven to help those with cancer, and stomach diseases. Some doctors recommend goat milk to their patients, especially those with lactose intolerance problems. It is time for goat milk to be recognized as a healthy alternative to the ultra-processed, vitamin-diluted pasteurized cow milk products readily available to most consumers today. Someone's life might depend on it.


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PostPosted: Feb 9th, '09, 22:15 
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Are there fewer restrictions with regards to selling goats milk in the States?


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PostPosted: Feb 9th, '09, 23:55 
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You cant sell goats milk unless precessed through the same process at an licensed facility. Its hard to find. We get raw goat milk from a lady for $8 a gallon.. She is a clean milker and your hard pressed to tell the difference between that milk and cow milk. She feed the milking goat a clean diet of only high value hay. She also keeps the buck very far away from the milking goat. The SAANENS dairy goat has an amazing ability to produce milk. The problem here is after you have milk, butter, cream, ice cream, and soap; what do you do with the rest of the milk?

Once I am spending more time at home I will be getting a good dairy goat. Could almost live off just cheese and milk, lol.


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PostPosted: Feb 9th, '09, 23:56 
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A true dairy goat!


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PostPosted: Feb 10th, '09, 01:22 
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I raised milk goats for several years- I wanted my children to know what it was like living on a farm type environment. We had almost everything but cows and horses. I even took a couple of goats to the Kindergarten to teach them about goats and milk in general. We had tog crosses, saanen crosses and Nubian. Nubians and togs are definitely the noisiest and the saanen cross was the sweetest of the bunch and the best milker.
Dairy goat does are very sweet, docile and almost odorless. They are very smart and train easily to a milking stancion but they will step in your pail so you need to have a small low profile stainless steel milking container and watch their hind feet. I used a low profile stainless steel auto drip coffee pot. It had a handle and many times I saved the milk from being stepped in. When it was full, I dumped it into a larger bucket, sitting off to the side.
Bucks, on the other hand, are the nastiest and smelliest animals I have ever encountered. Even pigs will have nothing to do with their waste, if given a choice.
I also had a stainless steel milk strainer and used coffee filters to strain the milk and washed the utensils with soap and water after use.
I would get about a gallon a day from each goat. We used a lot but any that wasn't used, I would let curdle and feed to the pigs. For some reason, if the milk is curdled before feeding it to them, the milk doesn't cause diarhea as it does when it's fresh and the pigs absolutely love it. I know that when I lived in Utah, there was a small cheese processing plant and they would have the whey (which are the fluids left over from pressing the cheese) in a huge stainless steel tank outside and pig farmers would just stop by and take all they wanted. So, if you make cheese, feed that to a pig too.
Aside from washing the udders before milking and straining, nothing else was done to it- we drank the milk as is and no one ever got sick from it. I compare the taste to store bought cow's milk but I fed large amounts of sweet feed and high grade horse hay. But keep the feed off the ground or they won't eat it after stepping on it and they'll pick the hay leaves and leave the stems if given a chance.
The milk will separate a little if left to stand in the refrigerator and you can skim that and make butter. I used an electric egg beater and a little salt to make small amounts of butter, which is about all you can get from goat's milk. I also made homemade ice cream and experimented with cheese making, although not as much as I would have liked to but I didn't have much storage and it takes time to age cheese properly.
Currently, I've been toying with the idea of buying a miniture cow breed but my system will be built first.


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PostPosted: Feb 10th, '09, 05:53 
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The lady we get our milk from washed the underside then milks into a small topped bottle; which she pours into the main milk jug. Much less chance of getting anything in the milk. Another option is one of those home made automatic milkers.

I dont have the time to milk a goat more than once a day, and I cant ask the family to do any more; it will get neglected, but some day soon I hope.


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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '09, 06:11 
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I heard someone say yesterday that democracies have a lifespan but his take on the collapse was different than mine. I believe that growing civil unrest from anger, loss of jobs, loss of shelter, growing fear and uncertainty, will eventually freeze the flow of goods and services, forcing a totalitarian response, which in turn will create worse civil unrest as more people, those who were not the problem to start with, begin to face lack of water, lack of food, and the destruction of necessary infrastructure and basically cause societal collaspe from the inside out.
Already the economic downturn has become the greatest U.S. threat. You should read this- it's very interesting.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... tu7WK7SUyg

Anyway, this person's version is along these lines-
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
>
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "
http://www.theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/21P ... thnsUS.htm

Comments, anyone?


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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '09, 06:46 
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More food for thought-

America, once the home of the world's best-fed, longest-lived people, is now a divided nation made up of a rich elite and a large underclass of poor, ill-fed, often obese, men and women who are dying early.
http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_inequality.htm

This article was at the beginning of the economic crisis but it explains why it happened- greed begets more greed.
America’s “Fortunate 400” control vast wealth
By David Walsh March 7, 2008
1,125 billionaires worldwide
Meanwhile the world’s billionaires continue to grow fatter and fatter. This year’s crop of 1,125, according to Forbes, are worth a total of $4.4 trillion among them, an increase of 26 percent from the year before. On the annual list published a year ago, the magazine calculated 946 billionaires, with combined income of $3.5 trillion.
The existence of this group of financial and corporate predators, who cohabit the planet with some three billion human beings who survive (or fail to) on less than $2 a day, is a symptom of a diseased and doomed social order. In its usual manner, Forbes treated the cancerous growth of personal wealth as the opportunity for a special kind of celebrity watch.
The various reports underscore the state of world capitalism in 2008: unrestrained growth of social inequality, economic instability—and the inevitability of social upheaval.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/mar20 ... -m07.shtml


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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '09, 06:53 
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Remember when I said that it was planned to get the middle class'es only wealth- their homes?

Wealthiest Americans will receive most of the benefits from the planned tax cuts
May 17, 2006.
America's 112 million families had combined wealth of $50.3 trillion in 2004. When those families are ranked by the size of their wealth, however, the top 1% alone held $16.8 trillion in wealth, more than a third of the United States' total wealth and more than the $15.3 trillion held by 90% of U.S. families. The top 1% had average wealth of $15 million per family in contrast to the $22,800 average wealth of the least wealthy.
Homes accounted for more than a third of American families' assets. Primary residences are the asset with the least-skewed ownership, with the top 1% owning primary homes worth $1.9 trillion and the bottom 90% owning $11.8 trillion.
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/e ... _20060517/

I wonder how those bottom 90% are fairing now?


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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '09, 07:08 
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Angie wrote:
I wonder how those bottom 90% are fairing now?


This gives you a general idea-

The decline in house prices since the middle of 2006 has lead to the loss of more than $4 trillion in real housing wealth, more than $50,000 for every homeowner in the country. Real house prices are now dropping at close to a 2.0 percent monthly rate, which translates into a loss of almost $350 billion every month.
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 008_07.pdf


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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '09, 07:39 
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Angie

That is banking talk. A home is where you live not an asset in money terms. Its function does not change. The banks create money when you take out a morgage, they dissapear that value when people can't pay. Then they stick their hand out into your pocket to help them pay their inflated salaries and shareholders.
The government would better serve its electors by ensuring they have somewhere to live, not playing (paying) the stupid banking game.
My 2 cents worth anyway.


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PostPosted: Feb 13th, '09, 09:18 
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Interesting info Angie, thanks..

I agree a home is not an investment and people should stop looking at it that way though most people leverage its value to gain more stuff they can not afford. The old way ob business must go.. I mean look at the oil companies my company works for. They have billions in liquid assets, yet they take out loans to drill wells. No loans, no drilling.. Then the gov gives them huge tax breaks and underwrites bad loans.. Thats just messed up..


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