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Maybe the comment could have been phrased better, but it seems pretty true. I remember gun advocates saying teachers should be carrying to prevent school massacres.

Although I haven't read the whole thread, I don't see why it should be locked/blocked. You mention finding a middle ground. Without compromise there can be no middle ground. The gun lobby seems unwilling to back any restrictions, therefore how can we find a middle ground?

I apologise for that, it's unfair to lump everybody together in a mass demographic, not every American wants guns everywhere.

But you never hear about mass stabbings, or mass baseball batting. People can run away from that sort of stuff, it's harder to run from somebody with a gun. And nobody should ever be killed while at work, in any way, shape or form. And if we had somebody die while at work, there would be massive investigations, and whatever was the cause of the accident, it'd be taken away/procedures put in place so it can't happen again.

The kits have been around at least 25 years to when I was a kid. The only part that most of the kits lack and there are legal issues to producing (on something like the AK-47) is the receiver because it is stamped with the serial number that is necessary for it to be a legal gun. If you are a decent machinist you might be able to mill the receiver of a gun like that. I am no machinist so I don't know for sure.

Let me preface this by stating I speak from a differing but respectful point of view and most of the questions are rhetorical.I didn't want to post in the first place because it is so divisive, but here we are... Just think of me as the little fish that swam round and round until it finally got sucked into the unguarded SLO ( after all this is an AP forum right?)



Never say never Colum I remember a certain mass stabbing in china. Incidents in India? Asia? And what of the woman beheaded at work in Missouri? those things happen all over the world everyday. Maybe not in "Mass" but it is no less evil and no more avoidable. I think where we agree is we all think such incidents are a tragedy. Where we disagree is that it could have been prevented if it weren't for the "gun lobby"...

So it's only the one side that needs to compromise? There are many restrictions already and yet it still happens. what sort of restriction would have prevented these evils? an outright ban? but doesn't AU and even the UK have firearms still? Has anybody been shot since the ban? So is a country without firearms REALLY any safer? or would you concede that Firearms don't pose a threat when possessed by responsible citizens, and evil acts will occur regardless of the weapon used? The same bullet points (pun intended) will still be argued endlessly


I hope it is not too hypocritical to restate my opinion that this thread is not productive, when the best we can hope for is to "disagree agreeably" after all can anyone honestly say they feel better after reading it?
anywho... I need to feed my addiction so I'll be around if you guys still want to talk AP

I doubt it's something that'll get agreed on. We've got different cultures, and backgrounds behind us. And there have been horrible things committed with Machetes in third world places, but they usually aren't committed by single people, it's squads running through hacking up anything that moves, and something that won't happen in a first world country. It takes a squad of people to do that, a unstable guy with a machine gun can cause the same amount of damage in the fraction of the time.

My question to the pro gun Americans on here, what would be the turning point that'd make you think there needs to be gun reform? 10 people killed? 100? 1000? A daycare center being shot up when an unstable dad looses custody rights?

what restrictions?

the fact that when a bank give away guns with new accounts.... you are only allowed to open one account per day?

or the restriction that you can only fit so many guns in your car when you go to your local supermarket?

Of coarse this thread isnt productive, talking to pro gun people is never productive, they simply can not see the error of thier ways, just like hunters.... they always have an excuse or (invalid) reason.

we still have gun violence here since the bans on semi/automatic weapons, but we have not had a "massacre" since port arthur, that is years, how many DAYS since you guys have had a gun massacre?
The only gun violence that really remains here to any degree is that of drug dealing mobster types and they dont shoot innocent people on purpose.

It even comes to the point of how often do police shoot innocent people there? they dont here, it doesnt happen..... because they are not paranoid that everyone they pull over is going to pull a gun on them....

Edit: Colum, im sure the fact that so many schools, including primary schools have been shot up shows that there is no number of childrens deaths that would make them blame the gun or think any restriction (even licensing) is ever a good idea.

The stabbings in China were carried out by many ppl, it was a terrorists attack, if they had guns I'm sure the toll would be much higher. Beheadings on mass don't seem likely. Mass killings with automatic weapons are more evil and more avoidable than single killings.





The vast majority of ppl that don't like guns aren't calling for an outright ban, just restrictions. While the guy lobby seems opposed to any restriction, hence they don't seem willing to compromise.



Exactly what restrictions are needed I can't say. In Australia, where guns are still allowed, gun deaths have halved since 1996. Sure ppl are still shot, but deaths are are now less than 10% of US stats. Maybe the US should consider similar reforms?

I was listening to an editorial on the radio while driving home and he was talking about that latest set of murders.
Pontificating on the situation and the "pro-gun" bias he perceives the US media has and how maybe since it involves their own that the media might galvanise for reform. (Cynical bastard, who I'm sure believes in his own sweetness).
And how he thinks the media over there has failed their watchers with their (perceived) bias.

I'd say it's a foreign nation's domestic issue.
I'd say that by piously carrying on about it he failed his audience by not focussing on our domestic issues.
Foreign domestic issues are rarely our business.
As ours are nobody else's business.
Metaphorically, it's the same as us all gossiping about our neighbours and telling them how to live their lives. Or our neighbours doing the same to us.

Add to this rant - a Greens MP (or candidate or some such) who was given extensive media coverage over his disgust over data he received via the freedom of information act.
He was 'shocked' and horrified to discover that '1 in 9' people in NSW are licensed shooters.
Okay, turns out it's 1 firearm per 9 citizens in NSW, So first he fibbed, then he clarified.
Apparently those figures require (in his opinion) a change to the legislation.
I say that with such numbers of firearms legally registered in the community that there is a strikingly low rate of firearm offences and therefore is little need for more than a cursory examination of legislation, as one would expect periodically in any area of bureaucracy.
RantyRantyRantyRant

The gunman in the Sydney siege had a licence, despite being on a terror watchlist and having been charged with accessory to murder and sexual offences. This is part of the reason the Greens are pushing for change.

Also pushing for change is the gun lobby, who are using US style claims about rights and heritage.

No.
He was not licensed and he was unlawfully in possession of a restricted, unlawfully modified and unregistered sawn off pump action shotgun.

He was ineligible to hold a firearms licence in any state or territory of our country.
The claim that he was licensed was another lie from the anti-gun lobby and the greens which was rapidly denied by the relevant state police commissioner. But lies stick like mud don't they?

edit - the firearm in question may have been a semi auto in hindsight, not a pump. Not that that makes any difference at all to its legality...

..
I think that I agree with the US Gun Lobby's sentiment that bad people kill with guns, and had they not guns, they would do it any other way
and, the other belief, that the only real answer to bad people with guns, is good people with them.. but that does not suggest vigilante responses..

Years ago we had our guns removed by John Howard, and today there are more illegal guns than ever.. but in the hands of criminals, so you have to wonder what "Control" has really achieved

Ironically, I think just today, there were three drive-by shootings in Sidiney, and the police observe that they were unrelated.
..
.

Seems I was wrong, sorry 'bout that, I got the info from a Greens quote. I don't like the way this (and many issues) are seen as being 'left' or 'right'.

When I was a kid in Melb, my mate's dad had heaps of guns under his bed, including armor lite rifles. We would look at them when he was out. This was in the 80's, I think gun laws were too lax then. I remember them being sold in K Mart. The laws now seem much better. Looking at the statistics it's difficult to argue they haven't saved lives.

The US is a different situation. When the Australian gun lobby uses the same language as their US counterparts, I worry that they would like a similar low level of restriction.

He'd eaten too many GM organisms obviously........

Here's a short video of a friend of a friend "gun controlling himself in the face" at my farm. You have to wait for the "super kick" haha

To preface, he just bought a new cool short stocked shotgun and was to cool for school!

http://vid229.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/Stoneymahony/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8084_zps2a7eed5a.mp4

see.... lack of gun control.....