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PostPosted: Dec 9th, '08, 23:45 
A posting God
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A lie told often enough will be believed. People are controlled simply by what they believe.


Well, if people could turn off the tv for a year I bet things would change!

Hays Sulzberger wrote:
Obviously, a man's judgment cannot be better than the information on which he has based it. Give him the truth and he may still go wrong when he has the chance to be right, but give him no news or present him only with distorted and incomplete data, with ignorant, sloppy or biased reporting, with propaganda and deliberate falsehoods, and you destroy his whole reasoning processes, and make him something less than a man.


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PostPosted: Dec 9th, '08, 23:58 
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Benjamin Franklin]Man will ulimately be governed by GOD or by ty-rants[/quote]

[quote="Alexis De Toqueville, 19'th century wrote:
America is great because America is GOOD. If America ever ceases to be good it will cease to be great
We're there, $#!tting on everything that is good now and to self involved to do what is right.

Daniel Webster wrote:
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.


Justice Robert H. Jackson wrote:
It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.
I wish everyone would take that one to heart..


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 00:26 
DandDman wrote:

Justice Robert H. Jackson wrote:
It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

I wish everyone would take that one to heart..


Amen to that DanDman.... it really is up to all of us to reclaim and protect our rights to citizenship and democracy...

Sadly... a lot of us might get shot doing it though .... :x


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 06:49 
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Re Dan's comment on Juries.

"Jury nullification is a de facto and traditional power of juries, not normally disclosed to jurors by the system when they are instructed as to rights and duties"

“ The jury has the right to judge both the law as well as the fact in controversy. ”
—John Jay, first Chief Justice of the United States

From Wiki, however having been on a jury, I know that the System will not tell you about it.


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 10:06 
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I get really worked up sometimes over situations like the one Chelle posted. It really is a minor infraction compared to the real crimes that go on every day! Someone with the best interest of the public in mind would prioritize police resources to get violent criminals off of the streets and neighborhoods But instead it is our individual rights that are under attack.

This wouldn't work in real life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCVnMDy_7nM&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyokKFIe ... re=related

This is what really happens!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVACCaVxYEk

And this is why!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGhcECnW ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXj_HzG0 ... re=related


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 10:11 
Controlling the collective has always been about targeting and marginalising the individual BRB...

The aim of collective control is to extinguish any threat to the collective... an "individual" poses the greatest such threat....

Just like the Borg.... :wink:


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 10:28 
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Ok now it looks like you are baiting Steve into this :lol:


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 21:43 
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DanDMan wrote:
Well, if people could turn off the tv for a year I bet things would change!
Very true. GIGO... garbage in... garbage out.....
RupertofOZ wrote:
Amen to that DanDman.... it really is up to all of us to reclaim and protect our rights to citizenship and democracy...
Sadly... a lot of us might get shot doing it though .... :x
......... sadly, weirdly true.
BatonRouge Bill wrote:
I get really worked up sometimes over situations like the one Chelle posted. It really is a minor infraction compared to the real crimes that go on every day! Someone with the best interest of the public in mind would prioritize police resources to get violent criminals off of the streets and neighborhoods But instead it is our individual rights that are under attack.
Good videos BRB. Barak Obama was himself a Senator who used his vote to vote in HR6304.... US President above the law.
Same violations of freedoms to the individual world-wide. Hidden agenda.........
Listen to the politicians... a one world govt?..... when first discussed years ago it was called a "consipiracy theory" ...... the Bible calls it the end times and maps it out clearly.... right on course....years ago we read books about this stuff and found it interesting but had no thought it would be within our life-time......
FINANCIAL TIMES ......... yesterday........
Quote:
And now for a world government

By Gideon Rachman

Published: December 9 2008 02:00 | Last updated: December 9 2008 02:00

I have never believed that there is a secret United Nations plot to take over the US. I have never seen black helicopters hovering in the sky above Montana. But, for the first time in my life, I think the formation of some sort of world government is plausible.

A "world government" would involve much more than co-operation between nations. It would be an entity with state-like characteristics, backed by a body of laws. The European Union has already set up a continental government for 27 countries, which could be a model. The EU has a supreme court, a currency, thousands of pages of law, a large civil service and the ability to deploy military force.

So could the European model go global? There are three reasons for thinking that it might.

First, it is increasingly clear that the most difficult issues facing national governments are international in nature: there is global warming, a global financial crisis and a "global war on terror".

Second, it could be done. The transport and communications revolutions have shrunk the world so that, as Geoffrey Blainey, an eminent Australian historian, has written: "For the first time in human history, world government of some sort is now possible." Mr Blainey foresees an attempt to form a world government at some point in the next two centuries, which is an unusually long time horizon for the average newspaper column.

But - the third point - a change in the political atmosphere suggests that "global governance" could come much sooner than that. The financial crisis and climate change are pushing national governments towards global solutions, even in countries such as China and the US that are traditionally fierce guardians of national sovereignty.

Barack Obama, America's president-in-waiting, does not share the Bush administration's disdain for international agreements and treaties. In his book, The Audacity of Hope , he argued that: "When the world's sole superpower willingly restrains its power and abides by internationally agreed-upon standards of conduct, it sends a message that these are rules worth following." The importance that Mr Obama attaches to the UN is shown by the fact that he has appointed Susan Rice, one of his closest aides, as America's ambassador to the UN, and given her a seat in the cabinet.

A taste of the ideas doing the rounds in Obama circles is offered by a recent report from the Managing Global Insecurity project, whose small US advisory group includes John Podesta, the man heading Mr Obama's transition team and Strobe Talbott, the president of the Brookings Institution, from which Ms Rice has just emerged.

The MGI report argues for the creation of a UN high commissioner for counter-terrorist activity, a legally binding climate-change agreement negotiated under the auspices of the UN and the creation of a 50,000-strong UN peacekeeping force. Once countries had pledged troops to this reserve army, the UN would have first call upon them.

These are the kind of ideas that get people reaching for their rifles in America's talk-radio heartland. Aware of the political sensitivity of its ideas, the MGI report opts for soothing language. It emphasises the need for American leadership and uses the term, "responsible sovereignty" - when calling for international co-operation - rather than the more radical-sounding phrase favoured in Europe, "shared sovereignty". It also talks about "global governance" rather than world government.

But some European thinkers think that they recognise what is going on. Jacques Attali, an adviser to President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, argues that: "Global governance is just a euphemism for global government." As far as he is concerned, some form of global government cannot come too soon. Mr Attali believes that the "core of the international financial crisis is that we have global financial markets and no global rule of law".

So, it seems, everything is in place. For the first time since homo sapiens began to doodle on cave walls, there is an argument, an opportunity and a means to make serious steps towards a world government.


But let us not get carried away. While it seems feasible that some sort of world government might emerge over the next century, any push for "global governance" in the here and now will be a painful, slow process.

There are good and bad reasons for this. The bad reason is a lack of will and determination on the part of national, political leaders who - while they might like to talk about "a planet in peril" - are ultimately still much more focused on their next election, at home.

But this "problem" also hints at a more welcome reason why making progress on global governance will be slow sledding. Even in the EU - the heartland of law-based international government - the idea remains unpopular. The EU has suffered a series of humiliating defeats in referendums, when plans for "ever closer union" have been referred to the voters. In general, the Union has progressed fastest when far-reaching deals have been agreed by technocrats and politicians - and then pushed through without direct reference to the voters. International governance tends to be effective, only when it is anti-democratic.

The world's most pressing political problems may indeed be international in nature, but the average citizen's political identity remains stubbornly local. Until somebody cracks this problem, that plan for world government may have to stay locked away in a safe at the UN.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/05c36962-c594 ... ck_check=1
RupertofOZ wrote:
Controlling the collective has always been about targeting and marginalising the individual BRB...

The aim of collective control is to extinguish any threat to the collective... an "individual" poses the greatest such threat....

Just like the Borg.... :wink:
Absolutely spot on Rupe!


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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '08, 23:14 
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Hi all

First of all i'd say it' not new that there is a global market as we are more easily buying chinese stuff than EU stuff anywhere, secondly there is a global politic since we are talking together all over the world and have more or less the same experiences and knowledge wherever we are. It's already pretty global as Obama was amazingly received in Europe and sponsored as he was the worlds president by people all over the planet.

Another thing to see is the mess it is with EU countries, 27 countries are not all together as every country wants to take the best of the system and leave the mess for the others. France was one of the "NO" countries to European constitution but has been sucking half of the agriculture subsidies for the last 30 years, and is more or less taking as much money as it gives to EU.
Big farmers here plant corn to get the subsidies more than for the sales profit of it, some even get the subsidies for the land and rent it to other farmers. Dutch didn't want to pay for the poor countries in EU and Italian don't want Romanian even if they are european. Not ready for a big president now but probably quite soon enough for justice, police and army forces to show up... You can get followed by french cops in Amsterdam and arrested just past the french border, they have spies at the snack restaurants on the motorways in Belgium too...

Another thing is that Mr Attali was an economic concellor for President Mitterand (not the same political side, pretty much socialist) and was just asked to lead a report to change the french economy, which has not been used anyway but to reinforce the power of the main sales companies...

They have simplified the ways for the buyers to pay for produce from small farms less than the produce costs to make. Half of the farmers are broke this year even with the high prices of food and have there taxes cut off for this year, how to take public money and putting it in the hands of the big fish without showing?!

I suppose that anyway global gouvernance could be the only way to control global firms. The new resolutions after the crisis is to unify the accountant system so that the big companies can't transfer money or stock from a expensive tax country to a cheap tax country not to pay, but who are the ones using the collective goods as roads, schools...

The last thing i have to say is that if you follow the directions of the food producing markets they all lead to local fresh food producers and not big world companies, those companies have the means to push the cops on the small units but not to transform to lots of small unified locally managed units.
They are loosing control day after day and don't like it!

Power to the local, linked to global!


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PostPosted: Dec 11th, '08, 05:39 
A posting God
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Good to see you back Amcafish :)


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PostPosted: Dec 14th, '08, 03:11 
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A founding father once said (and I'm paraphrasing) that "Those who surrender a little freedom for a little security will forfeit both and gain neither."

This whole article really doesn't suprise me. Numerous times a bill to require a prescription for vitamins and even the amount of fruit and individual can have has been tried to be pushed through our governmental system. I also find it very disturbing that the steps that put Hilter into power in Germany are being paraphrased by the American government. I find it very disturbing the fact we'll have active servicemen patrolling US cities (by 2012 I believe), I find it disturbing that Haliburton was commisioned to build interment camps... I urge anyone who doubts this to prove me wrong.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

After watching what happened at the RNC there is no doubt in my mind what the US is heading for. :(


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PostPosted: Dec 14th, '08, 07:51 
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Thats the way I see it too fishygrown!


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PostPosted: Dec 14th, '08, 21:51 
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If you grow your own meat, dairy products, eggs, and fish you to are may be breaking laws. Here permits are requied for keeping any aquatic species. Dairy products must be pasturized and from an approved kitchen. It does not matter that small pox, the reason for pasturization, has never come from goat milk. If you give away surplus it is questionable. If you sell any of these products you are in violation. The policians have vested interest in preserving the businesses that you compete with. To be lawful any surplus even veggies must go to the other animals and be consumed or composted on the property. To make and sell soap without insurance and bond is unlawful. To make fuel is okey untill you put it in a vehicle and run it on the road. To make your own herbal remadies is okey but it is unlawful to share with sick neighbors.
There is really poor enforcement of these laws, so one can get away with it until you are brought to attention of authorities. One way to avoid that is not to share with others. That is against my nature so I am exposed. So hang me...take away my mortgage free improved homestead....make me homeless. It was fun while it lasted.


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PostPosted: Dec 15th, '08, 05:01 
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yahoo! More stateside BYAP..hello to Arizona and Indiana...are you both growing now?
Amen to most of what I've read...but am sticking to an old "bar law": No politics and no religion..LOL! :!: :roll: :!:
Are your systems in the forum?? I'm still trying to get pics in...maybe by Christmas?


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PostPosted: Dec 23rd, '08, 22:39 
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Its scary to think that o-bomination wants to have a internal military force. We are already seeing militarization of local police equipment, but to have a military police army focused on enforcing policy inside our boarders is insanity. It will be much worse than the videos posted above. Now they will just drive a tank on your property and if you resist then they will crush you and your family over nothing. I have found that to stand up for your rights alone is VERY risk because they crucify anyone who believes in the constitution and fights for rights and everyone else is to busy to care about another's rights, not realizing that its their rights that are being violated too. With the in ability to get judges to follow the law its just about impossible to get justice. My favorite example which Im sure I posted here before is the seat belt. If I dont wear it the law will "protect me" by fining me money (time of my life spent working for it), if I refuse to pay they will take my physical freedom (and perhaps cause loss of income and ability to feed my family), and if i refuse to let my freedom be taken then they will take my life, all in the name of protecting me (more like protecting the insurance companies bottom line). Now tell me how can this be? A total violation of constitutional rights and more important a violation of god given rights/natural law, but yet when it made the news everyone would just dismiss it as some crazy nut that deserved to be put down and that one less person who thinks for them selves..


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