Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I have been looking forward to building a dome for a while but it has always been the hubs which have been offputting, this really is the first system that I have seen which looks like it might be doable on a budget. The rest involve precast pieces, welded metal or precision joinery. The attachments for the internal and external coverings are also nicely thought out.

Having seen the number of hubs you have to cut and shape it is probably worth buying the hubs just to save time.

Of course they are going to want to make as much money as they can. If they really wanted to convince you that you couldn't do it at home they would have gotten the pieces fabricated in China in a different colour and possibly a more UV resistant material. It probably wouldn't have cost much more either.

Unfortunately by using off the shelf products that are available just about everywhere and by aiming it at DIYers they have pretty much shot themselves in the foot, which is a real shame because although they didn't invent cable ties, PVC pipe or chicken domes they have certainly put them together in a much better way than I have seen before, and I have looked at a lot of domes online.

Thats getting away from the point I was trying to make Stuart, this is just the simple DIY combination of items that have already been manufactured.



It's a little like patenting the DIY windmills and water wheels people build out of old fisher and paykel washing machine motors. OK, if you came up with the idea of making them, then put a patent on people commercially selling them, but to specifically aim threats at DIYers? That sucks in my opinion...

I find it hard to imagine they would search peoples back yards for home built hub kits then get a lawyer to sue you for $130 (hub kit)

especially when it's advertised in a DYI magazine and they provide instructions on how to build them on the web.

But it is a cleaver idea and not unreasonably priced IMO, can't blame them for trying to scare of imitations.

But why can't you patent a simple invention made with parts off the shelf.



If its a new design then sure but if its based on an old design with salvaged or off the shelf parts then no.




Since that is the most likely people who will infringe their patent then I can understand them doing it. Mind you I don't think it is very sensible since i think their target market is likely to think the same way you do and their threats are more likely to inspire people to knock off their idea rather than purchase the product.

So in practice we agree but in principle we differ.

That is the other side of the business equation. If someone is doing it professionally they should be able to do it cheaper or better or both than you could at home.

It depends on how much people value their time and the quality of the job. Getting the angles right will be tricky plus drilling such large holes evenly will also be difficult. Someone doing it professionally should be able to do a better job than a DIYer and that is also why they should be able to make a profit out of it.

But people don't even have the choice or option of trying to do it themselves whether they can or can't do it better themselves is a moot point. THEY CAN'T...

I think the issue stems here:

Law, not business and or marketing...

As you say, threatening DIYers will probably only harm sales in the long run.. Certainly puts me off ever dealing with them..

Having your idea/product patented, no problem, protect it you deserve it. Threatening DIYers, whether they plan on following them up or not, just sucks..

It wouldn't have been hard to get the inner and outer tubes made into a single piece of plastic with spider arms connecting the rings, moulded with holes already.
The hubs would cost little more than a dollar each to have manufactured if the quantity was high enough, you could sell them for $30ea.
I would respect the patent rights.
Cutting and drilling holes in pvc is asking for people to copy it

That's like EB patenting the gravel blocker in his grow beds that is just stormwater pipe drilled with holes.

Yea its just holes drilled in a bloody pipe, not exactly ground breaking technology. Im going to go make a heap of them, take a photo of them and send it to him in an email just cause the guy sounds like a twat.

Not really.

A better analogy would be the Affan siphon which he could have patented but decided not to.

Or the flout which they did decide to patent.

An Affan siphon is far more technical than drilling a few holes and it's guys like Affan and Joel Malcolm who are prepared to share rather than exploit that make the world a better place.

Sure they make the world a better place but so do people who invent stuff and then sell it.

Stuart I hear you and I'm on both sides of the fence on this one but we're not talking about a heart lung machine here.

Like I said before I agree with EB in practice but not principle.

The thing is people look at complex stuff and say that is "worthy" of getting a patent and that is simple and I could do it myself so it is not "worthy".

To get a patent you need only demonstrate that no else has published the same idea, that it is your idea and that the idea represents a significant advance or innovation that was not obvious before you had the idea. It doesn't matter how simple the idea is or how obvious it is in hindsight. You basically only need to demonstrate those things.

Also remember that the patent system was setup to reward inventors and to ensure the dissemination of innovation. The fact that innovations can only be protected for a limited amount of time means that they are fair game once that time has expired. Many of the widgets and things that we use today were once protected by patents but now everyone uses/makes them because the patents have expired.

One of the other benefits of the patent system is to help innovators not to continue to work on the same solutions. This make the industry of innovation more efficient or a better way to put it it allows our society to innovate more efficiently. Imagine two people working completely independently on the same solution. One gets to the patent office by chance (not design) before the other and gets the patent. This is bad for the one that didn't get the patent but does free them to work on something else in fact it can often inspire them to improve on their now known competitors innovation and if they can come up with a significant improvement then they can get their own patent and everybody wins (but especially the patent attorneys )

Its a bit like putting a patent on bending a coat hanger for tv aerial

Stuart, you sound like you have something your trying to patent at the moment.....

Yeah how about the use of standpipes in a growbed.. Damn I should have patented it, I was the first using them that I had ever heard of.. Most people like the Speraneos were using caps on the end of their drain pipes with holes drilled into them to control the flooding in the beds. That sucked, beds could flood easily

I guess everyone's different. Personally I don't think you should be able to prosecute someone for doing something on their own in their backyard for their own use..



So some guy with no internet connection, happens to come up with the exact same idea (not hard), he builds one in his backyard.. Brilliant, even gives some to a few friends... Next thing you know, this guy has to front up to court, charged with patent infringement and having to pay all legal costs of the patent holder as well as his own legal costs?

Just the fact that he is threatening to do such things "even if the damage is slight".. That just sucks..