Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

There's the problem in a nut shell C1....

Our whole political/cultural philosophy and outlook has been conditioned since the days of rampant colonialism that we can solve any problem by buying a solution (or by just taking it) on both a political and personal level...

It really does require a major paradigm shift firstly in our thinking and approach to living harmoniously on this planet and secondly a reappraisal of our whole value systems....

Are we ready to do what is necessary... IMHO ... not yet....

certainly not while we still gleefully embrace rampant consumerism and smuggly embrace concepts of "nationalism" wrapped in the "fake patriotism" of a flag backed with overwhealming force...

If push comes to shove I believe we will fall back upon physically taking what we need for our own selfish survival... or more particularly the maintenance of our current lifestyles.

yep anarchism(?)
Take what you need and then some more to be sure.
Corner the market like the multi nationals and pay no tax or minimal and then get the gov to give incentives for creating work and when not enough profit send it ofshore and sack all your workers...ranting again
C1

C1... (and others)

I don't see it as "ranting"....

I see it as hopefully an "awakening".....

The alternative is silent acquiesence... and look where that has taken both this country and the rest of the world in the last ten years...

Backward 50 years IMHO....

And the BIG ozzy bhp the worst offender, so how do I/WE take them on?
I do my bit for the community the environs and the globe!
I choose to make a difference and I have a positive influence on ppl by not telling but doing!
Side story --frends are like butt cheeks s**t might seperate them but they always come back together...
C1

The most eminent geologists in the world that have spent decades searching for oil, all admit that there are no major oil fields left to discover. Most of the surface of the earth has been mapped apart from the icecaps and some of Siberia, and any new discoveries they are making are only small and/or more expensive to extract. The days of cheap oil are over.

Yes market forces are going to play a part in increasing the price of oil and decreasing demand, as well as finding alternatives, but we are still headed for the fact that there isn't going to be much in the future.

It takes enormous amounts of energy to extract oil from Shale and oil from tar sands. No doubt in the future we will be doing it on a reasonably large scale, but once again it is still going to be more expensive, so the cheap oil period is still over no matter how you look at it..

The apocalypse has happened for many cultures over the centuries, and sure enough it will happen to us eventually as well..

We are already at the stage of taking what we need from others. It's been said by many that the war in Iraq is the start of never ending war, or at least not in our lifetime. The greedy will always find a way to continue their opulent lifestyle whatever the cost.



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There is still plenty of oil left in the world. Enough to last us at least our lifetimes anyway. The problem is that it is getting harder and harder to extract the oil from the ground. Thats where the cost comes into it. CO2 or water has to be pumped down into the wells to bring the oil up higher so it can be obtained. The real concern is that huge amounts of money are being spent on finding a better way to extract the last drops of oil from a well. If only they had of predicted the issue and developed the technology BEFORE the problem is reaching its peak. At the same time this money today could have a million better uses.

Hey TC how long are you expecting to live?

Because I 'd bet my lefty that if nothing is done it will be less than ten years before we're outta cheap petrol.
Just have a look at growth of life style how many Billion in China,India are buying their first car--Our population every day!!! I recon when all is done it will be the poor people that get left with the oil, I can tell you now I am costing different modes of transport not fossil. for this old fossil.
C1

I Know that I've said it before... but I think everyone should ask...

"Who killed the electric car"??? ... sadly a perfectly good stylish fast working electric car (GM's EV) was killed off for various, but not by any means in-surmountable reasons.

GM weren't the only ones who were developing the technology and had working models... Ford & Toyota were involved...

GM quit about the time two "major" oil execs joined the GM board and then the California State Legislature neutured the "zero emmissions policy that had driven the reseach....

If governments can ban incandescent light bulbs then why can't they take the equally bold step of requiring the immediate re-surrection of the electric car???

The project it self demonstrated much of what is being said about implementing a carbon trading scheme.... business will respond to the imposition of legislature/targets/fines...

give the required direction and business will incorporate into the projections....

Yes I know that the "electric" car requires an energy input to produce etc etc....

But every little bit done ... compounds and grows an impetus of its on IMHO....

Something done is better than nothing... at worst it might "buy" us some time to initiate better solutions.

C1 - I don't mean cheap oil I mean all oil. There are hundreds of deep wells still available that have been abandoned due to the depth of the oil. There are plenty of wells that have been found and capped. How long have we been taking oil in huge quantities. Not very long in retrospect. It will be a long time before we take the last drop. But it doesn't mean we are not on the downward slope.

Lets not forget that peak oil has NOTHING TO DO with running out of oil. Simply put it is when the demand (in billions of barrels per year) outstrips the possible supply from the wells (due to them being half empty and coming out at a slower rate)

We forget also that the biggest oil producing nation (about 65% of world production) was for nearly a decade only producing about 10-15% of it's capacity.... (1)

That same nation was a major influence in the settings of OPEC production targets (hence price) for many years .... (2)

That same nation is now no longer a member of OPEC and no longer constrained from producing and supplying at 100% capacity.... (3)

Even allowing for the exponential demand from China in the last 5 years why then is the price of oil so high and supply so "apparantly" constrained???....

Well I guess you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that Haleburton and other huge US oil interests (under UN mandate - first order of occupation) now controls the 65% of the worlds oil reserves in IRAQ....

Bet the national stockpile in them there hills in the good old US of A is nearing capacity..... and price.... well someone has to pay for the war/occupation... and history shows that it sure as hell wont be the US

mmm...TC going back to the 70' when we were paying about 20c an AU gallon the US had had an oil embargo and soon was running low on fuel because demand was outstripping supply-- to the point when speed limits were introduced to conserve fuel then we went to litres and were paying 9c litre the price doubled over night...
we consume heaps... think about how many cities there are, way more huge than ours coming upto 40 years only and we've done that to the oil supply.
Here's a heads up..If the peak of our usage is not yet here and the peak of our reserves wont get any bigger...Hey lets start something new-- no food miles, produce what you need or go without --that would save a heap Oh thats what AP is all about I knew there was something interesting about this place...

Was having acupuncture today, and the old chinese guy says he grows a lot of his own vegies, but has failed this year as it has been so hot and dry. I said, ah, you need fish as well, and proceeded to tell him about it. He thought it was brilliant. I pulled short of inviting him over for a look, but he was a very wise old guy, and he said he thought it sounded magic and I said, it is, it is, it is Aquaponics mate and we are gonna save the world

C1, I agree with you totally. I was just arguing against the apocalypse theory. We are not going to be out of oil any time soon, we just won't be able to afford it. We are well and truly at our oil usage peak, more cars, planes, trucks and military tanks than ever. It is definitely a downward struggle from now on.

"I knew there was something interesting about this place" ... Your not enjoying this heated discussion... I thought it had gone out but someone rekindled it. Thankyou very much Jamie and The Day after tomorrow!!! (6 pages ago). Unfortunately the environment crisis is happening 2 days BEFORE the day after tomorrow...... OH God, its today.... we're all doomed.... DOOOMED!

I always thought that the oil companies owned the governments....surely you jest when you say that the likes of Bush n Bonzai should stand up to em lol