Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Umm, isn't that because scientists raised a red flag and we stopped using CFCs in aerosols? That is actually a point in favor of listening to scientists when they say that things are messed up. The trick today is that the powers that run the world do not want to change the way things work - that is why the movie is called an "inconvenient" truth.



Don't agree with that, there is real science being done, but there is also "big tobacco" companies promoting misinformation to keep us on the fossil fuel mainline.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... r-forcing/


From here, a climate scientists blog entry explaining why water vapor is not that same as CO2:

http://mustelid.blogspot.com/2005/01/wa ... inant.html




BTW, this entry is from 2005 and people are still bringing up the water vapor myth. That's a point for big tobacco.

tamo, 10C was for illustration puropses only. my point is that warmer air holds more VW at the same RH.

Dan, the OH bloody well should have gotten smaller. i'd much prefer to have saved time and vented 30kg of R-22 this WEEK, but as per regs i re-claimed.

No wonder we gotta reclaim 410a aswell! zero ozone problems, but one tonne of 410 is equal to 1600 tonne of co2

Funny thing, being a cheap scape, I was recovering freon for years before it became law. I used a 2 ton compressor, a small coil and a fan on a dolly. Then I would sell it back to them or others at the new price It just made sense. What never made sense is how a heaver than air gas was going to get so high up in the air that the sun broke it down and let it damage the ozone, there is really no proof ever cited. I think its more like the increased cattle production to feed the world; tons of cow farts do more damage and this will continue to double in production every few years as population increases.

Actually the ozone hole got smaller before we passed laws to protect it. It has been getting smaller since 1975 from the nasa figures. Now, yes certain areas have been getting larger but others got smaller. One large volcano eruption did more damage to the ozone that man has ever done(so I have heard). However, considering the human doubling factor I think we MUST protect the environment. For all the science that is going on in environmental research it seem to me that all of it that makes it to use for the government to pass laws is junk science with no factual results. The 2 larges problems for the environment is the US and china. The us consumes 33% of the earths resources and we are only 5% of the population. The attitude of all the people doing so financially well here is that they do not care about anything, they are going to have their hummer getting 8 mpg and other wise living in comfort no matter what the cost to other people or the earth. Its already hard enough for us small fish and I hat to say it, but things a re getting out of hand over here with wealth and inflation so I think there needs to be a end to the wealth to solve the problem; though I hate to think what that would mean for me who already has a hard time making ends meet. Land cost $2000 and acre here 10 years ago and now some how for no reason it now cost 19,000 an acre just because people with to much money are buying all the land and putting it up for sell in small lots for a huge profit. If I had to buy land now, I would never be a land owner. Greed is ruining everything for people who dont want to play the life ling debt game!

I have meat scores of people over the years doing HVAC work. I would say most of them played the investment game and retired just in time to get old and die from sickens without ever doing all the things they wanted. Every one of them told me they regreated not living life before it was to late. (I just love old timers stories) The ones that did live are very happy, but still have to work a small job to afford health insurance or meat their basic needs. After examining the happiness of these type of people I came to the conclusion that it is a bit ridiculous to work the good years of my life away in hope to some day rest. My rest is going to be in the next life and its more healthy to stay busy when getting old. It would be better to start out and live in a state of less stuff, work less and live a working retirement like most people end up doing in the end. All they got for all their "prime of life" was a house and some land; and, really, what does one really need stay out of the weather and keep warm? Debt ate everything else. So now they have a fancy house, work a few hours a week to pay for food and insurance and will do this till they die. I want to climb a mountain and lounge in a hot tub or hot spring and be with my family now while I can do it and now wait till I am able to retire and to old to truly enjoy and do what makes me happy; already I feel the downward tug of age and Im not even half way to retirement. If anything it would be better to be retired while I have kids and then work till I die after they leave. I will also invest some saving in hopes of putting compound interest to work for me, but with the economy in the state its in Im not going to hold my breath. My retirement money has only lost value for the last few years in the stock market. The only reason I invest in retirement is because my employer matches what I put in (up to a certain value). If I had of just put my retirement money in silver 12 years ago when it was $5 something an ounce I would have almost tippled my money by now, but retirement investment has not even come close to doubling. Heck, if bought boxes of suckers and sold them to kids for .25 each I would have doubled my money. ...Well Im rambling on now... I had better stop..

you know i'm glad you brought it up dan..................now i dont have to look like a goose, but the first time i read up on cfc's i asked myself the same question................how does a heavier than air gas make it up there so easily...................

i'd HOPE they'd done atmospheric sampling and not just fit the "peg into the hole"..............................

i'm only removing charge after a burn out (hermetic) or a dubious install where nitrogen or air or moisture may be in the system. SO i cant feel right about using the gas again anyway..........and with 410 forget about it even if it was clean, too much chance of an incorrect blend.

amazing how critical the critical charge is in the new daikins........but they work great.

Sure, I dont think the new chemist can beat what the real chemist (old timers) came up with so many years ago. AS long as it works though... :shrug:

DanDMan, interesting that you should bring up investing in refrigerant. My dad has done HVAC work on the side for about 30 years. When R-12 was banned, he stockpiled about 1000 cans and sold them slowly as the price went up. He's now getting ready to do the same for R-22, which is already in production cuts, and will continue to have more in the coming years until 2020.

We have 2 pallets of R22. Its better that gold. There are over 2 millions systems in our area and people are not going to want to change anything.

hey Food and fish..............found any more of those 80L bottles?

Food crisis stories in NY Times today:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference ... classifier

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/world ... e1&ei=5087

A surprising article. I hadn't realized so many people were having such a hard time. It makes the libertarian in me rue this as a natural result of government manipulation of what should be free markets. In the US, paying farmers to not farm, and then taking corn crops to satisfy an idiotic factional desire for alcohol as fuel is lunacy. In Mugabe-ville, before he took over, they exported food to the rest of Africa, but now import because their infrastructure has basically collapsed. Different ends of the same craptacular spectrum.

/rant

How many you want

dan got me thinking about the r-22, i think we're already down to 75% production and 50% in the next year or so.................. will start on my retirement fund

will take the one at your place

To make a very long story short - about 10 years ago I became convinced that tropical deforestation was real. Being a capitalist (though I do care a lot about the environment) within a short period that this was a potential goldmine.

We see this cycle all the time. The easily available natural stocks are depleted, but the demand is still there. The thing I liked about trees is that no one could "manufactor" them overnight. Which means, if I guessed right, I would be doing very well.

And we did, guess right.



The green is production, the yellow represents demand - the difference is unfullfilled demand.

To get out of the rat race, you have to read the news to see where things are going and get there ahead. I honestly think that we are coming into a time when resources are king. The days of just extraction are rapidly coming to an end. The reason is simple, there are no more frontiers to speak of that haven't been tapped.

I would invest in no company without first understanding where they get their raw resources - nothing will shut you down faster than a lack of resources.

just my dos colones...

more funding for more ap CR

Steve, they only potential draw back to stocking up freon is if they offer a drop in replacement of it like they did with R12. We stock piled some of that, but it took a while to sell as the drop in replacement was not much more. However, there are many people who dont want a replacement. They are the ones we sold the R12 to. People with cars mostly.