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New Guy from IL
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Author:  Kyle [ Apr 19th, '11, 10:59 ]
Post subject:  New Guy from IL
Hey guys,

I am really glad to find this forum and it has really been a big help while I have been putting together a small system. My name is Kyle and I am currently living in Southern IL USA. This is the first time that I have really gotten into gardening and I am really looking forward to seeing what comes out of this aquaponics stuff.

I have a couple of questions but before I get to those I want to tell you about my system. It is a barrel ponics system with a 200gph pump. Originally I had a Affnaan style siphon but I have replaced it with the style with the hose out the side. I could only really get the Affnaan style working when there was no media in the grow beds. Once I placed media in them I couldn't get the siphon to break at the end of the cycle. There are no fish in the system yet because I want to get it under control before placing fish into it. The system is set for 15min on 45 off.

My predicament is this. I currently have had the system up with just water circulating for about 3 weeks, but my ph is really high like 8+. I have watched some of the Murray Halam videos and he talked about adding pool acid to get your ph down. So I went and got some Muric Acid (hydrochloric acid) and have been adding a cap full for a couple of days without seeing the Ph come down at all.

At the same time I started introducing the Acid I also put about 1.6 cups of Maxi Crop in the system along with a cap full of liquid iron. I planted some lettuce in the system to sorta get things moving along. The lettuce was a transplant from soil and since moving into the aquaponics setup it has really taken a turn for the worse.

Here is are my questions. When you transplant plants, do the plants normally go into some kind of shock until they get acclimated into the system? Is putting in this kind of acid hurting my system? Should I be using some other kind of ph down like for pools or something? Is this acid going to hurt fish once they are in the system? Is this high PH keeping my lettuce from absorbing the nutrients in the Maxi Crop, and liquid iron? My nitrates are low like 0-.25 and Ammonia is about the same, 0-.25

I really get a kick out of seeing all the awesome grow beds from others and this is a little discouraging. So if you guys could give some advice or point me in the direction I should be going I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Kyle
Author:  keith [ Apr 19th, '11, 20:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
there are lots of knowledgable folks on here that will help..

what kind of media are you using? it can affect your ph (limestone will keep it high)

i wouldn't add any more acid, the nitrification process will lower the ph if your media is neutral
not sure if just the maxicrop will be enough to start the cycling, you can add aged humonia (see the "peeponics" thread) but won't need much.. i use about a cap of maxicrop with iron for 100 gallons of growbed every few weeks

did your affnan syphon have a "guard"? did you try adding holes to it?
Author:  Kyle [ Apr 20th, '11, 01:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
Well as for media, I am using about 50% Hydroton and 50% 3/4 in gravel. I am using the hydroton on top and the gravel underneath it. I didn't have enough money to go all hydroton, and I didn't think that this would be such a bad idea to mix the two media. I am using tap water in the barrel.

I will have to look into humonia, sounds crazy at the moment. Is this a good way to start cycling the system?

I do have a guard on all my siphons, a 4in piece of schedule 20, its more thin walled than 40. I have holes drilled in them all over the place and extra holes in the bottom.

Does anyone else experience plant shock or is this because there really aren't enough nutrients in my system yet?

Thanks for the answers so far!
Author:  swanberg [ Apr 20th, '11, 12:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
Welcome, Kyle!

What is the pH of your tap water? It's not a bad idea to have a baseline pH for water right from the tap, and the again after being 'aged' a day - put an air bubbler in it and let all of the carbon dioxide (which forms carbonic acid in the water) gas off.

Most of us don't recommend trying to adjust the pH with acid, as the pH of the system will drop naturally as it matures.

Do you know about/been to Growing Power?
Author:  earthbound [ Apr 20th, '11, 16:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
yeah go easy on the acid in a little system... As Swanberg says, whats your tap water pH? and if it's not too bad, do you have a picture of the rocks/gravel you put in there?
Author:  Kyle [ Apr 21st, '11, 09:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
So it looks like my tap water is about the same color in the ph scale as my water in the aquaponics setup is. I guess it will be very difficult to get it down from where it would be normally. I will be putting a air pump in there with 2 stones this evening and hopefully it will help things come down.

I also looked into the pee-ponics and have started accumulating a supply and I will let it age over the weekend and then start adding it to the system on Monday.

Swanberg I have heard of growing power, crazy thing is that a couple of years ago I lived an hour from them, now that I am interested in aquaponics I am 7 hours from them. Ironic.

Thanks for the tips so far guys. Here are some pictures of the system in progress. You can see what I mean by the lettuce not looking that great.

The other shots show my hydroton on the top of the gravel.

Attachments:
File comment: Poor looking lettuce
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File comment: Gravel Size
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File comment: Hydroton on Top, 3/4" Gravel on Bottom
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DPP_0004.jpg [ 525.41 KiB | Viewed 3249 times ]
Author:  keith [ Apr 21st, '11, 20:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
are you flooding to the top of the media? if so, you need to lower it a bit,, maybe an inch or so below the surface

that gravel does look a little like limestone, but it's wet and hard to tell.. put some in a small cup with vinegar, if it bubbles, you should remove it..

regarding the lettuce, what kind of temps are you having?
Author:  Kyle [ Apr 22nd, '11, 06:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
The media is coming up about an in before the top of the media. As far as the temps it has been getting down to the high 40's at night and up to 80 durring the day.

I will check on the gravel and see what happens with that.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Author:  Dave Donley [ Apr 22nd, '11, 10:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
Hi Kyle:
I don't see anything out of the ordinary with your gravel, as far as the lettuce goes I wouldn't worry about it until your system is cycled. What are your nitrites? Are you using strips for testing or a drip test (strips are unreliable), also I think a pH of 8 is like at the high end of a regular test kit, from what I remember there are special high pH tests maybe? The water temps may still be so cold as to make the cycling slower, do you have a water thermometer? Instead of transplanting maybe try direct sowing of some leafy greens like lettuce, basil, etc. As a guide to how the system is shaping up. HTH!
Author:  DéjàVoodoo [ Apr 22nd, '11, 22:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
Just try getting a packet of spinach or lettuce seeds and add those directly to the growbed. You could probably start some cucumber seeds in a few weeks as your nighttime temps come up a bit. The seeds themselves have everything they need for the first couple weeks of growth. Don't worry about trying to adjusting the parameters until after your amonia spike. In most cases just leaving things be to sort itself out is the best course of action. Just add some humonia and seeds and let it be.
Author:  Kyle [ Apr 26th, '11, 09:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
ok so I added about 6 oz of humonia that had been aged a week or so. I did that this morning and about 12 hours later ,earlier tonight, I tested for Ammonia and I didn't get any readings yet. How long does it normally take to start seeing some Ammonia, and should I add anymore humonia or just wait till I see a reading on Ammonia before adding anymore? I appreciate everyone's suggestions and it is really helping me not be to discouraged with the results I am getting.

Also DéjàVoodoo, I am so sorry to hear about your concrete. That is one messed up situation. Were those guys registered with the local municipality. They should have had a business license and maybe you could use that to get in contact with them again. :dontknow:
Author:  keith [ Apr 26th, '11, 20:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
it took my small system a about 4 weeks to cycle...
the humonia you added yesterday was still not converted, but should be soon.. i think TC discovered it took about 2 weeks
after it gets going you ph will drop (it took my system about 7 months for it to drop from high 7's to high 6's)

as they say.. patience!
Author:  N4S1 [ Apr 27th, '11, 00:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
feel free to try my method if you want, it only took me 2 weeks and i have growing plants and all my fish are alive.... :D
Author:  Kyle [ Apr 27th, '11, 09:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
Well here is the test from tonight. These are not to different from what I got this morning. I am definitely seeing some ammonia now and am getting a little bit in the nitrates as well. Am I correct in thinking that I let the ammonia go back down to 0 and then add more humonia till the ammonia level goes back down to 0 in a 24 hr period? When that happens does that mean that the system is cycled? This is very exciting and I am glad to see some changes happening in the system right now. Keep the suggestions coming!

Attachments:
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Author:  DéjàVoodoo [ Apr 27th, '11, 09:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: New Guy from IL
Hang in there...it will be fine.
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