Backyard Aquaponics
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Hi Newby in Perth
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6337		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Tarmac [ Oct 15th, '09, 19:16 ]
Post subject:  Hi Newby in Perth
Hi from Manning at the moment but Roleystone next year.

Just bought a system from BYAP on the weekend. My better half was a bit too keen and also got some fish. After an initial bad start approx 55% loss in first night :cry: (Chlorine I think) does anyone have any tips for cycling with fish?

Currently have 1000 litre tank and one growbed. Fingerlings = 6 trout and 2 bream left.
I have a Master test kit arriving by post.
Will be adding sea salt this weekend.
Growbed planted out and have added some seaweed fertilizer.

We know plants but not fish.

Cheers Tarmac
Author:  jessy [ Oct 15th, '09, 19:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
the build up of the bacteria, can upto 6 weeks........... so all fish added now, might be a loss.... so don't be too suprised by this outcome

A fishless cycle using urea, or humonia is a better option for the start of a system. Then add the fish.

You can search the fishless cycle.

hang in there, though, all will come good :cheers:
Author:  earthbound [ Oct 15th, '09, 20:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Just don't feed the fish, leave them, now you just have to wait, it's the hardest thing to do I know..... :)
Author:  Tarmac [ Oct 15th, '09, 20:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Sounds strangly like a choice of fish death by starvation or chemical N overdose. However, I have read that the fish can survive some time without food. What would be a minimal feed ie a life sustaining feed?
Author:  earthbound [ Oct 15th, '09, 20:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
You do not need to feed the fish, they will survive quite happily for weeks without feeding, they are not like dogs or cats.
Author:  jessy [ Oct 15th, '09, 20:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
if you added the fish without cycling......then let it all go...just add air and filtration, the fish will love you for that. The bacteria needs to build up, so it will take some time :roll: It's like a little Eco system....and you are the God controling their enviroment :roll: Something like that anyway.....these fish are depending on you......so don't feed them....please ...anyway, they wouldn't be hungry, their water parameters are way out :cyclopsani:
Author:  Tarmac [ Oct 15th, '09, 20:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Fish life by starvation it is then.

Cheers Tarmac
Author:  jessy [ Oct 15th, '09, 20:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
they won't starve, barra have a fat store in their guts....
Author:  faye [ Oct 15th, '09, 22:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Hello Tarmac, If you purchased a complete kit you would have received a presentation folder including "Golden Rules".
This covers the numbers of fish stock advised per growbed and are based on a safe stocking limit. The biggest fish killer is overstocking and overfeeding. Fish should only ever be added after the system has been set up and planted out. I would personally be very surprised if the fish died from chlorine in the water, more likely transport issues such as temp and aeration, but I do not know the circumstances. There is a lot of basic information in the kit and remember that we support the systems that we sell, minimal feeding for the first four weeks. I have seen barramundi live for more than 3 weeks with out eating at all, they did not die. With trout watch the water temps (thermometer in fish tank) over the next days as weather climbs to 34 degrees Saturday, do not feed them. Good luck, have fun and don't stress.
Author:  ivansng [ Oct 15th, '09, 22:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Welcome to the addiction... After going through fish deaths when we first started, I must say that fishless cycling is the best way to start a new system.

Anyways, I don't believe I am saying this but patience is vital to cycling a system with minimum casualties. And tell your other half that as well...

Without a Master Test Kit, I would put salt in asap to mitigate nitrite poisoning... You can get the Natural Lakes Pool Salt from Bunnings $6.72. For 1000L, just put in minimum 1kg but possibly best 3kg to reduce fish stress. One other thing you can do while waiting for your test kit is, most local aquarium shops offer testing of your water for free, so just bring a bottle of your water. Ask them to test for ammonia, nitrite and pH. But don't listen to them for any mitigation steps of buying bottles of "solutions" you will not be able to use... Come back to this forum and post your results..

Put lots of aeration into the tank, especially when water temps are increasing... oxygen is required by fish and bacteria growth.

Take note that you have about another month for your trout to live... Once water temps get warmer, they will not survive.... So watch your water temps and dead fishes both floaters and sinkers...

It is probably a good time to think about a cover for your fish tank if it is located in sunlight... I use a tarp to temporarily cover the tank... You will reach a stage in your cycling that algae will start to grow and your tank will turn green... Cover your tank then... Complete blackout... Fishes don't need light...
Author:  ivansng [ Oct 15th, '09, 22:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Oh yes, as what Faye has said about the high temperatures over the weekend... There is another thread talking about preparing some ice blocks... or old milk or cordial bottle filled with water, freezing them... chuck the bottles into the tank possibly Saturday late morning... Maybe even by required on Friday (tomorrow)...
Author:  Tarmac [ Oct 16th, '09, 18:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Thanks for the replies,

We have now salted after a visit to bunnings to 1ppt and are increasing it to 2ppt tomorrow. All surviving fish still alive, feeding has been ceased (we had only fed minimally for 2 days luckily).

Faye - We got a complete kit and I read everything including goldern rules. We have/did not overstock and added fish after plantout.
But, your transport query got me thinking.
It is possible that the fish could have been stressed before hubby left the shop :oops: . He bought 3 types of fish (Trout, Bream and Barra) from 3 tanks = 3 (or at least 2) different lots of temperatures. All 3 were mixed in the transport container (we aerated during transport). The only lot to fully survive were the 5 Barra which are not yet in the aquaponics system because we knew it is was still too cold outside - They are currently housed in an abandoned but heated fish tank left in hubby's office at work.

Lesson - if you are buying more than 1 type of fish put them in different transport containers to take home.

We do not expect the trout to get to plate size before we have to get them out (at 23oC it seems) and the temperature this morning was 16oC in the water. On the first day (Sunday) it was 19oC on fish entry and was down to 16oC in the morning.

Cheers Tarmac
Author:  creative1 [ Oct 16th, '09, 21:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Hi ya
Troutman has also mentioned temps to the max for trout in WA.
...We have had trout in water @26c for a few hours. per day.
Shade is good.
Author:  ivansng [ Oct 16th, '09, 22:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Tarmac wrote:
Lesson - if you are buying more than 1 type of fish put them in different transport containers to take home.


Maybe true, but the more important point is do you have different systems to put them into? Water temperatures are obviously the issue between trout and barra because there is a small window (time) where both breeds can withstand the temperatures but beyond that one breed would suffer. I think bream is somewhere in between but cannot take the extremes as well as either trout or barra.

You may have bought 3 different breeds thinking that you can harvest three different breeds, and even if the temperatures are on your side, one breed may grow faster than the other, you might find that the remaining fishes of a different breed may be eaten... Trout and barra eat other smaller fishes...
Author:  Tarmac [ Oct 16th, '09, 23:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi Newby in Perth
Different climate conditions for each fish were looked at. We thought it may have been too early for barra and too late for trout. We would have prefered Silver Perch but they were sold out.

I was not on the actual shopping trip and was pretty surprised to see 3 species come home.

I fully expect if the barra and trout go into the tank together the barra will eat the trout if the trout do not die from heat first. But my plan is to pull the trout out when the barra go in and put them in the aquarium the barra are currently in (air conditioned office). That is if the trout survive the cycling.

I am thinking it may be interesting to try and set up a growing bed on the window sill near the aquarium using a self watering long pot but I will get the first system working properly before this.
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