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Hello from Los Angeles California!
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=28114
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Author:  Los Angeles Will [ Jan 10th, '17, 13:57 ]
Post subject:  Hello from Los Angeles California!

Been lurking a long time.
I am currently trying to configure a system. I have gathered many parts to build a system, but am interested in Airlifts and the likes in order to save some electricity.
However, I find it hard to actually find many concrete examples to look at. I've looked at the Ben and Glen stuff. I've seen a few youtube videos that look promising, but nothing getting far into the layouts/ system design that is possible with this approach.

I have currently have gathered items to get started, but am trying to find my direction. I'm currently working on sketches/ ideas for the system design. I will definitely start with a media based system, then might add dwc at some point. I am considering channel catfish, and possibly Tilapia, but would prefer not to heat during the winter, so might go with the channels.

Where I'm at, Low temps usually get down to around 40 F (4.4 C) , but can get down to 38 F (3.3 C) (though its rare). Most nights this winter have been in the low 50's (10 C). We can get up to the high 90's (36.6 C) here in summer, but are usually in the upper 80's to low 90's (31-33) in the summer. It sometimes, though rarely, gets above 100f. Microclimate has a bit to do with the temps. We are on a bit of a hill, with direct sun exposure most of the day. We are slightly above the cold air drainage low point. We can be 2 degrees (F) warmer than the bottom of the hill in the winter.

I have gathered:
two 230 gallon (870L) open top poly tanks for FT ( Will be shaded, and possibly insulated. Have considered burying.
A 250 gallon (946 L) IBC for possible FT use
Two 110 gal (416 L) stock tanks for sumps
Duraskrim liner for GBs
A couple different air pumps
A couple different water pumps ( was planning to use before I learned about airlifts)

I know that I jumped in with a lot of info...and didn't clearly ask anything... But, here I am!

Anyways, nice to be here, finally....... :)

Author:  scotty435 [ Jan 10th, '17, 15:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello from Los Angeles California!

Welcome to the forum Will :wave:

Author:  dstjohn99 [ Jan 11th, '17, 00:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello from Los Angeles California!

Welcome Will. I'm in San Diego county inland with temp extremes from freezing a dozen times a year to 105°F occasionally in the summer.

I raise channel catfish and tilapia. I keep the tilapia in an insulated IBC tank and heat it to 70°F with a 1500 watt electric heater. I recommend catfish, though they need some space and they are more sensitive to water quality. Be sure your system is well cycled before adding catfish.

I use an airlift geyser pump to lift water from my FT to my strawberry towers, but I use electric pumps for everything else. The main reason is that airlifts need to be submerged deep, and don't move much volume if there is more than a few inches of head. My geyser pump is submerged 36", lifts about 36", but only moves about 4 gal per hour (8 - 10 oz per "burp" about once per minute). This uses a 4 watt air pump, saves me from using a much higher power pump to lift water 6 feet from my sump.

By contrast, sump tanks are usually more shallow and you need to move more water (300 gph or more). I recommend a pump suited to your needs based on head and GPH needed, 30 or 40 watts should do it. Over time you can experiment with airlifts and see if they will fit your needs. Also, you may be able to use a cycle timer or similar to limit the pump run time. This will conserve more energy but depends on your system design.

BTW, I highly recommend Jebao pumps. I've used several different types of pumps but for the last 18 months I've had a Jebao DC6000 on my 250 gal tilapia system, and for the last 6 months a DC9000 on my 800 gal catfish system. They are dead quiet, have low power consumption, reliable, and have adjustable speed. They also have a "feed" timer and a slow start feature. So if you are using with an indexing valve the slow start may be an issue.

Author:  Los Angeles Will [ Jan 11th, '17, 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello from Los Angeles California!

Thanks for the welcome Scotty and dstJohn!
D, I checked out your system on the link from your post, and it's a nice build. What is your stocking density on the Cats? I've read about catfish liking horizontal space (marathon swimmers vs. sprinters?) Based on others comments, I was thinking of going for 15-20 cats in one of the 230gal tanks. I will be sure to cycle the system before getting them in though! Everything is too muddy to build right now, so I'm trying to come up with a solid plan.

I was going to ask about the impact on your electricity bill, but I then read that you have solar!!! I was thinking about trying to run the system on solar, but that is a whole other can of worms that i need to learn about. I found a decently priced Phono Solar 1800 solar generator, which is a kind of all in one system...but I don't know if it would be able to meet my needs...

Thanks for the input about the geyser pump. Now, I have heard about the depth improving the function of an airlift/ geyser, but does a higher power air pump increase output?
I actually would like to try strawberries in AP, since I've tried them in the ground several times, but they struggle in our adobe clay soil. Have you only used towers, or tried them in a growbed? The towers make sense for saving space.

Also, the Jebao pumps work with household electricity? Or are they strictly DC? Do you plug yours in, or are they somehow hard wired to your solar system?

Author:  dstjohn99 [ Jan 12th, '17, 00:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello from Los Angeles California!

Will, I stock (supposedly) one (pound) fish per 5 gallons of water. I have a 900 gal tank that I average 800 gal in so my target is 160 fish. Right now I have about 180 4 - 6" fish and about 12 that are 16 - 20", I'm hoping they will spawn next spring. I also have another 30ish (4-6") in an IBC. I need to sell some fish.

The cats definitely like the bottom so a 250 IBC is tight and will be hard to raise big fish. That is how I started with my trial system which I now use for tilapia. I think you will be good with up to 25 cats in an IBC. You can add tilapia to the same tanks, but then you need heat and more filtration (RFF, media GBs).

When cycled (I used ammonia) I still had a problem with ammonia and nitrite spike after I added fish, so be sure to keep adding ammonia right up to the day you add fish, then continue to monitor the water closely for at least a week to be sure nitrite is under control. I recommend salt to 1ppt before you add fish. For 230 gal that is 2lbs of salt - I recommend KCl or a mix or KCl and NaCl. Be sure the salt has no additives (iodine, anti-caking, rust removers, etc). Water softener (Solar Salt or KCl) and pool salt are inexpensive options. You will likely get a 40lb bag for the same cost as 1 qt of aquarium salt.

It's not hard to estimate the electrical impact - add the wattage of the pump and airpump, etc. and that will be your max usage per hour. Multiply that by what you pay per kWh. That will be our daily cost. If you go solar I would put solar on your house rather that a system specific to the AP system.

Airlift - I don't think a higher wattage pump improves efficiency other than sizing the pump for the pipe size and lift. If I put a higher wattage pump maybe I could get mine to burp every 15 seconds, but I don't need the volume just to keep the strawberries wet. The point here is minimal energy so I found a 4 watt pump that had the pressure to provide air 3 feet deep - I also found a couple that would not. The geyser pump is the first one that a worked and b did not need any tinkering or testing. It just worked the first time, then I refined the delivery system.

The Jebao plugs into 120 VAC. It has it's own DC power supply.

Where are you getting your fish? I recommend J and J aquafarms. I was paying $335 per fish for 4 - 5" juveniles locally, then I ordered fry from J and J for $.50 each (I think) and shipping was $50. They always send extra so for $100 I got near 200 fish. I know you don't need that many but email the guy and see what he has / can do for you.

Author:  Los Angeles Will [ Jan 14th, '17, 12:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello from Los Angeles California!

Thanks for the tips and suggestions. It's gonna take me a while to actually get started. But, it is definitely encouraging to get help/ input!
As for the fish, somebody locally is selling channels for around 3-4 dollars for 4-6 inchers, around the same as your local source. I checked out J and J though, and they definitely seem like a good source. Tons of people sell tilapia fingerlings around here these days, and some are very reasonably priced.

Out of curiosity, what kind of feed do you use. I have found Star Milling and Aquamax locally. I know that feed quality varies greatly, and can cloud the water, etc.

The only reason I haven't done solar on the house is because we would be spending more to finance the system than we do on electricity currently. We averaged 11.33 kwh daily this year. Our bill is usually between 28-40 bucks. I found that system I mentioned earlier for 500, from someone who bought it, but never used it. It has a 160 watt panel, is expandable to four panels i believe, it has the inverter, the regulator, an enclosure, and two batteries. It seems like it's basically plug and play. I saw that they retail for over 2000, so it seems like a very good deal.

So, with the formula, lets assume I'm using 60 watts with my water and air pump. For winter, we are charged a max of 22 cents/ kWh. So, 60x.22=13.2/day x30 days in the month=396 per month? Is this right? It seems very high. I just found a calculator online, and it came out to be around 10 dollars a month, sounds about right. What am i missing in the equation?

Okay: 60 Watts x 24 Hours per day / 1,000 x .22 =.316 /day=9.48 a month....Whew....at 396 a month, the cost of a whole house solar system would have been justified real quick. :think:


Thanks again!

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