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First Indoor AP Sytem
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=27648		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  trc132 [ Aug 18th, '16, 06:01 ]
Post subject:  First Indoor AP Sytem
I've been following various threads for some time now and thought it may be the right time to begin posting. I've built my first indoor AP. Although there were prior beta versions their results are negligible, so the is numero uno.

My system consists of:

- 40 gallon rubber tub as my FT, roughyl filled to 35 gallons
- 20 gallon GB filled with 2 inches of small gravel and 8-9 inches of clay pebbles
- the GB drains into another 20 gallon tank that I am using for a small raft based system/ sump
- 2 T12 bulbs for both the GB and the Raft tank
- I have a bubbler with two stones, one in the FT and one in the Raft tank

It's currently cycling on a flood/drain for approximately 16 minutes every hour( (From 7 am to 9)
Roughly 3:20 to fill and 2:00 to drain.

It's currently fishless cycling. I will start adding fish at the beginning of next week.

Initial water results are:

-7.4 PH
-No ammonia
-No Nitrates
-10 ppm Nitrites (probably due to the clay pebbles being used in a previous system of mine)

I will try and post some pictures in the days to come. Please let me know if you have any feedback or any other related news.

Thanks
Author:  trc132 [ Aug 23rd, '16, 00:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
This is my first time uploading pictures to the site, so I hope this works out correctly. This is my small indoor system for anyone that may be following. Let me know what you think.

-Tyler

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FT.JPG
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Left View.JPG
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Right View.JPG
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Front View.JPG
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Author:  chris81 [ Aug 23rd, '16, 06:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
Looks good, what's the difference between t5, t8 and t12 bulbs?
Author:  nosliwmas [ Aug 23rd, '16, 08:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
chris81 wrote:
Looks good, what's the difference between t5, t8 and t12 bulbs?

Technically, the "T" number refers to the diameter of the tube in 1/8" units. So a T5 is 5/8", a T8 is 8/8" (or 1") and a T12 is 12/8" (or 1.5".) Lumens per $$ is the game. Some tubes provide more light for the buck and bottom line provide more life sustaining energy for your plants for less electricity cost. There have been a lot of advancements in artificial lighting in recent years and costs of super good lighting is a lot less than what it once was.

--
Sam
Author:  chris81 [ Aug 23rd, '16, 09:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
awesome to know. we have a bucks save center in hburg I can get fixtures for almost nothing,
Author:  trc132 [ Aug 23rd, '16, 21:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
Here's the water results for week 5. This is the first test after I added the fish. I have also seeded the plants so hopefully they will take root in the next few days to week.Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  nosliwmas [ Aug 24th, '16, 04:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
trc132 wrote:
Here's the water results for week 5.
Image

How nice to hear the engines starting! VROOOM! VRRRROOOOM! :headbang:

--
Sam
Author:  trc132 [ Aug 25th, '16, 05:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
Can anyone provide some of their thoughts and information on the amount of light I need to give my plants as they are rooting? I have two T12 bulbs as my light source. Additionally, how much light will they need a day as they continue to grow?

-Tyler
Author:  nosliwmas [ Aug 25th, '16, 07:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
trc132 wrote:
Can anyone provide some of their thoughts and information on the amount of light I need to give my plants as they are rooting? I have two T12 bulbs as my light source. Additionally, how much light will they need a day as they continue to grow?

I don't think we have enough clues to say how much you've got and how much you need. If you go to a bulb store you can probably figure out pretty well how many lumens you've got if you don't know. Length of tube, color of light, lumens... all of that information should be on the bulb packaging.

Bulbs.com: T-12 Linear Fluorescent Tubes

The other side of that is plants... What kind? Sorry if I've overlooked where you already mentioned this. But some plants like a lot of light and others do well in low light conditions. I'd expect anyone that doesn't have a serious grow room with high-powered lights probably doesn't have enough. Several times when I've grown under simple fluorescent fixtures I've always wanted more light. They are cool to the touch and not as inefficient as some bulbs, but I think you need a lot of them to push a lot of light. One time I built a fixture with reflectors for 4 ft T-12 bulbs that held 4 (or 6?) of them. By keeping fluorescents close to the plants you can help make up a little of the difference in what they lack in umpf. The last time I thought much about lighting it seemed clear to me that HPS were the way to go to get the most light for your buck. Now maybe these super LED's would be the way to go. That being said, I found it too easy to rig up a little tomato nursery under some fluorescents to get them big enough to go outside and compete in the rain with the rest of them. They did well enough under a circular T9 22W bulb with color temp 6400K (Day Light) rumored to output 1100 lumens, that I kept right above their fingertips. I had a gazillion or so germinate and get to 15 cm faster than I could give them away.

--
Sam
Author:  Seppeo [ Aug 25th, '16, 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
How much watt are youre bulbs?
If you really want to optimize your lightning, you need to measure it in micromols of photons per square meter per second. 150 micromols per second per sq meter is optimal for plant growth. This equals roughly with fluorescent tubes 300/400 watt per square meter. With LEDs around 200 watt per square meter.

Lumens suck for measuring light quality for plants. It is a measure for the amount of light that is present in the yellow/green coloured range(what our eyes see best). Plants hardly use any of the light in this colour, instead they like red and blue light. But the amount of red and blue is not included in lumens.

So it could be that a 200 lumen light bulb is outcompeted by a 100 lumen bulb as it provides a better light spectrum.

Ive tried numerous apps on my smartphone to measure lumens and many other ways to measure the light. But the only thing do if you really want a perfect light climate is to buy a photospectrometer to measure the micromols. But it set me back about 500 euros..

You can also some seeds in your setup and outside as a control. If you see that the seedlings are very elongated compared to the ones growing in the sun. You know light intensity is to low and uou can increase it.

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Author:  trc132 [ Aug 25th, '16, 23:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
Wow, Sam and Seppeo thank you very much for the feedback. I'm starting to understand a little bit more of the lighting aspects of AP (the area I know the least about).

I will plant 2-3 tomato plants, 1 cucumber plant, and a few carrots (just to see the outcome) in the top GB. In the lower raft system I will plant 3-4 lettuce plants and 2-3 basil plants. The sprouts are looking good. i may be a week or two out from being able to plant them in the system. I'll update with a picture soon.

Right now I have two bulbs for the GB and two bulbs for the small raft tank. It's sounding like that will not be a sufficient light source. Maybe y'all can help me figure out how much I lack and what would be the best options to fix this.

I will post the specs I found online for the bulbs I am using. The specs are per bulb. Let me know what you think.

PRODUCT DETAILS

• Size: 1.500 Inch Dia x 48 Inch MOL
• Sodalime glass bulb
• 130 picograms Hg per mean lumen hour
• Contains a combination of phosphors that produce light rich in reds and blues, specially designed to promote the growth and flowering of plants and aquatic vegetation
• GE plant and aquarium fluorescent bulbs highlight the natural beauty and color of aquatic life and plants, they are specially designed to promote growth and flowering of plants and aquatic vegetation

GE Lamps Medium bi-pin base linear fluorescent lamp features T12 type bulb is made of soda lime that offers shock resistance. Lamp has power rating of 40 Watts and minimum preheat voltage rating of 4.25 Volts. It measures 1.500 Inch diameter x 48 Inch. It has open circuit voltage rating of 330 Volts and has 5 mg of mercury content. It has starting temperature of range 50 deg F and has average life of 20000 hours. Lamp is UL/CSA listed.

[b]PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

Alternate Part Number F40PLAQECO
Application For Plant, Terrarium, Speciality
Average Life 20000 Hour
Base Medium Bi-Pin (G13)
Base Type G13 Medium 2 Pin
Bulb T12
CRI 90
Case Quantity 1, 24
Catalog Description GE plant and aquarium 40 watt T12 1-pack
Catalog Number F40PL/AQ/ECO
Color Rendering Index 90
Color Rendering Index (CRI) 90.0
Color Temperature 3100K
Commodity Code 7110
Country of Origin USA
Designation F40PL/AQ/ECO
Diameter 1-1/2 Inch
GTIN 00043168498937
Initial Intensity 1900 Lumen
Invoice Description English 49893 FLUORESCENT F40
Item Linear Fluorescent Lamp
Length 48 in. (4 ft.)
Lumens 1900 Initial
Maximum Overall Length 48 Inch
Mercury Content 5 mg
Mfr/Vendor GE Lighting
Product Type Fluorescent Lamp
Select Code LAMPS/BALLASTS
Shape T12
Shape Designation T12
ShortDescriptionStripped GE-Lamps-F40PL-AQ-ECO-Straight-T12-Fluorescent
Standard TCLP
Standards TCLP Compliant
Type Straight
UPC 043168498937
Voltage Rating 101 Volt
Wattage 40 Watt
description GEL F40PL/AQ/ECO 49893 FLUORESCEN
feature#1 Size: 1.500 Inch Dia x 48.000 Inch MOL
feature#2 Sodalime glass bulb
feature#3 130 picograms Hg per mean lumen hour
feature#4 Use to highlight the natural beauty and color of aquatic life and plants
feature#5 Passes TCLP, which can lower disposal costs
feature#6 Contains a combination of phosphors that produce light rich in reds and blues, specially designed to promote the growth and flowering of plants and aquatic vegetation
feature#7 GE plant and aquarium fluorescent bulbs highlight the natural beauty and color of aquatic life and plants, they are specially designed to promote growth and flowering of plants and aquatic vegetation
Author:  Seppeo [ Aug 25th, '16, 23:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
I think those 2 bulbs per growing level will be enough. I saw in the specs that they are high in red and blue light so thats good. Just closely look at how the plants grow, if they are really elongated and spindly they are trying to reach for the light. Which indicates that not enough light is supplied.

I think it would also help to get some reflective sides for your setup. Ive used those emergency blankets, they are really cheap and reflect all kinds of radiation pretty good. It increases the temperature as well.

And lastly, dont plant crops that differ in height under the same light source. Ive planted cucumbers, tomatoes, corn(what was i thinking) lettuce, basil and mint under the same light. After a while the tomatoes were shading pretty much everything and it was a mess. I could not pull out all the tomatos at once because the up take of nitrate would be hampered. In the end It was quite a hassle to replace them with lettuce and herbs while trying to maintain a steady water filtration. Now the cucumbers are taking over..

Im interested to see how carrots turn out in aquaponics.



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Author:  trc132 [ Aug 26th, '16, 04:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
That's good to hear. Hopefully if I keep the bulbs changed out on a frequent enough basis they will be sufficient. Thanks for the advice on the reflective material. I have seen them on many systems on here and never really knew what they were used for. That sounds like something I can do relatively easily this weekend that will be very beneficial.

Good tips about different plant heights, I never really thought of those consequences either. I'll try to keep the bed as well managed as I can to ensure enough light to each plant.

I've seen carrots on a few occasions. I don't really know the best environment for them to grow yet, but from the systems I have seen that grow carrots they grow really well. The only odd side effect I've seen is that they grow slightly stumpy or in shallower GBs they will only grow to the depth of the GB.
Author:  trc132 [ Aug 27th, '16, 03:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
Here's an update on the sprouts. Hopefully just a few weeks from being able to plant them in the system. It's almost that time to weed out all but one of each so they can continue to grow.

I also threw some seeds directly into the GB just to see what would happen and I started getting a few cucumber and tomato sprouts. We'll see if they take root or not.

I've also added a picture of my raft tank that I was hoping would act somewhat like a sump tank of sorts. It has already collected a good bit of settled material from the wash of the clay pebbles. I anticipate it to continue to collect settled solids deposited from the GB.

When would be a good time to add light to the system?

Thanks always for the feedback,

Tyler

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Sprouts GB.JPG
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Author:  chris81 [ Aug 29th, '16, 04:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: First Indoor AP Sytem
Looks good
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