Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

total newbie:)

so i just picked up 6 IBCs today, free care of an ex-permaculture garden. have no idea what was in them and probably never will but i can see plants growing inside so i'm guessing they're probably ok and will do the usual clean based on what i've read. i also just grabbed a greenhouse 6m X 3m as i have ducks and chickens running around as well as the usual ozzy bush natives so have not had that good of an experience growing plants.

i know i have lots of reading and learning to do, but to be frank i'd actually appreciate anyones recommendations on the best 'get into it' system based on what i have with a view to maybe expand later.

i was planning to make (say) 3 FTs, species so far unknown and use the rest for STs, spares etc. rather than being too ambitious.

it's cold here, down to 2c overnight so location of the FTs, STs is really the question as it kind of seems to dictate pumps, plumbing etc. i don't know if the greenhouse will really hold any real heat, the FTs/STs _could_ be partly buried into a hillside if that helps with insulation.

i've seen the usual cut-and-stack plants above fish scenario but is this the best use given my layout/experience? i don't mind spending some $ getting a decent system so i'd have thought some consideration into pump sizes and insulation is warranted with some regard to being able to grow different varieties. what i don't want to do is get out the cutting tools and go down the wrong path.

ultimately, i'd like 3 different species (i'm more interested in the fish than the veg atm) so i don't know if that means separate STs, pumps or you can just combine them all and buy one decent one? to start out i'd be happy with one species btw - just thinking no point buying pumps and plumbing that won't do the job or will be an overkill later.

i also have limited water available, so whatever system i choose would need to be water-wise and obviously with the cost of electricity use as little as necessary.

for the experts that have been down the traps, what's the best setup for me?

You haven't mentioned grow beds yet, what's the plan there?

If you have a robust enough pump, you can certainly run the FTs in parallel SLOing to a common drain or even in series.

I'd recommend spending some time reading the basics section, looking through the member systems gallery and familiarizing yourself with the basics. With some basic AP biology plus some plumbing ingenuity, there are more options than there is space to describe them

Hi Buckettea, +1 for checking out the basics info - have you had a good look at the systems in the IBC of Aquaponics? There are some great examples which may help you decide.

I am new to AP as well, but have kicked around the forum for a while and read heaps. One of the first things you need to think about given your interest in multiple species of fish, is whether you really want to be managing enough media beds and grow enough plants to provide biofiltration and take up all the nitrogen produced by your fish. If not, then perhaps consider a RAS (recirculating aquaculture system) rather than straight AP. You can still grow some plants if you want, but you would be dealing with your fish waste and biofiltration separately. There are some good threads on the forum that deal with this - just do a search on RAS.

You could potentially (and please check this with the experts who have set up RAS) have a whole IBC buried as a sump which pumps via a single pump to a couple whole IBCs as fishtanks which have solids lift overflows (SLOs) to radial flow filter/s and then some sort of biofilter/s (eg. moving bed biofilter) before returning to the sump. Then, if you do want to grow plants you could easily incorporate either media beds, deep water rafts, or NFT tubes, but not have to rely on them for treating your fish waste. You will definitely need additional aeration for your biofilters and FTs in this sort of set up. Heating and cooling water is expensive so my thoughts are that you are best to try and stabilise your temperatures with large volumes and contact with the ground and pick species that suit your temperature range.

If you decide to go down the AP route, a rule of thumb suggests you will need a 2:1 volume ratio of growbeds to fish tanks, and that you need 25L wet media/fish to provide sufficient biofiltration and solids treatment. Check out the oft repeated rules of thumb thread.

If you are or become more interested in plants you could build some large media beds down the track like Colum has (he had some recent how to build GB videos on his thread).

Also, check out Gunagulla's threads, he is up in NSW with possibly similar climate to you and has a fantastic set up.

what do they say about fools and opening mouths?

already i see i'm not ready to be doing any cutting... thanks for the responses and suggested things to check. this is what i came here for

just fyi, space isn't a problem particularly (i live on rural block, nothing a $200 pe greenhouse can't fix) but i do see the importance now of the ratio's.

i have a ~5000L (plastic?) septic buried in the ground that i'm not using (pre existing on my property, might need a leak repaired but i would think 'clean' enough since it's been empty for 10years?).

thinking of incorporating this into my system.

is there any reason why you wouldn't bury the FT as opposed to the ST that i've seen mostly used?

just thinking about stability of temperature, and if it would be better to have the FT being the one that is most stable. i know cold water would be coming in but you could control that to a degree, even if you pre-heating the water somehow to regulate the temperature.

i'm sure proposed before, but couldn't find anything specific....

you can bury the FT, but you will have to bury the ST too.

thanks yavimaya, i think i'll scrap that idea of using the septic...

i've found one of the IBCs is perished at the top and a little brittle so not using that. i'm left with a 500L bottom half.

based on the suggestion that 2:1 ratio is about right, how does this sound:

3 x GB@500L (whether i fill them to that is another matter, and i'd be using 2x bottom, 1x top so plumbing would need to vary). i see there are many posts regarding depth of the grow bed, i'd prefer not to _need_ additional filtering but would put it in if/when necessary and are hoping that the extra depth will provide a little more filtering? I would use it to advantage for perhaps growing trees/plants that benefit from additional depth.


2 x GB@300L (tops)
2 x FT@700L (bottoms)
2 x ST@1000L (complete)

gives me up to 2100L of grow bed media to 1400L of FT and plenty of ST. I would plan to stock at a lower density until i can expand the GB later to make the 2:1 ratio (I do have some bathtubs and concrete laundry sinks looking for a home).

Hi Buckettea. You mentioned fish species in your first post. In the Sydney region we are pretty much limited to Silver Perch which take two summers to grow out and Trout which grow to a good size over one winter. Maybe I shouldn't say "limited to" as these are excellent fish for aquaponics and can be kept in the same tank.. I really think its worthwhile to spend some time looking thru the members systems to see what has worked and what are some of the problems that can arise from the different designs and configurations. I wouldn't dismiss the old septic so quickly, it could make a good ready to go sump tank for example ? Or if suitable a fish tank and just pump straight up into the growbeds which drain straight back to it. Keep an eye on gumtree, aquaculture tanks come along occasionally at a good price and used water tanks can be adapted to make good fish tanks. You could make a great system with a couple of 3000 litre fish tanks and use half ibc's as growbeds. You mentioned electricity, by keeping the head height to a minimum you reduce the cost of pumping. All the best with it ! and have fun !

thanks rendang, yes i've pretty much come to the same conclusion on the fish species, but was hoping that i might get barramundi during the warmer months (i have one of those solar pool heating systems, the type you lay on the roof that i was going to try and incorporate) but i will take your suggestion and just stick to those two for the time being since you're in a similar climate. i hadn't actually checked the grow out time of perch so that's useful to know.

the septic has a crack, and while i could repair it i'm concerned with the overall condition (one crack probably means more to come!).

i do like the idea of using a watertank, i guess i'm concerned with the size/number of fish and whether i can really clean that much water or keep it at stable temps.

i've cut one of the IBCs as per the IBC of aquaponics, and will for now get the plumbing sorted (SLO and sediment tank) for that one and at least start cycling one small system. i'll add in the sump tank later. i'll probably use poly pipe and fittings for the plumbing, even though i know it's going to work out more expensive they're re-useable and more flexible.

i'm still grappling a bit with where to locate what, i have a sloping/multi-level site but trying to factor in temperatures, space (do i put the FTs in the greenhouse or will they take up too much space?) etc. so it's a bit of train wreck atm. seems i'm going to need a lot more GBs that I had factored in just for two IBC FTs. and also weary of algae growth.

do you in sydney heat the water? are the FTs inside or outside? do you paint the outside of them (i'm paranoid about these things sitting in the sun since i already see how one was too brittle to consider even as a GB)?

It can all be a bit overwhelming trying to sift through all the info and options - chin up, you will get there and learn heaps along the way.

With a sloping site, I would locate fish tanks near the top, with SLOs to flood and drain growbeds with autosiphons that dump to a sumptank at your lowest point which could be under you GBs if space is limited. You would have a continuously operating pump in the sumptank which pumps back to the fishtank/s. Use whole IBCs as fishtanks, and you can dig them into the ground some to provide thermal stability and give the right height for the GBs. Make sure you leave enough airspace in your FTs for the water to backup over the SLO a bit and some freeboard so your fish don't jump out. And make sure you leave some room between you FTs and GBs in case you want to add additional filtration down the track.

If you are set on using IBCs as GBs you could have your 1/2 IBC GBs sitting over the other halves as interconnected sumps using the IBC cages and bases for supports. These could be in a greenhouse/shadehouse if you want to extend growing season, but do you really need that in Sydney? Only stock to the amount of biofiltration (ie. volume of wet GB media) you have. If you don't have enough planting space you will end up with high nitrates which is ok for the fish, but can inhibit plant growth. You could add some NFT pipes or DWC beds or GBs for extra planting space. Make sure you GBs get plenty of sun all year.

Some sydneysiders will have better info, but I don't see why you would need to heat the water for silvers, and definitely not for trout. You will want your FTs located in a cool, shady position (outside is fine), and you need to protect the IBC liners from the UV light. Mine are clad in fence palings and are shaded by vines in summer, others paint them or cover in shadecloth. You also want to shade any open water in tanks to reduce algae. Most heat in a system is exchanged through the GBs - if they are in a greenhouse they will be heating the water in your whole system during the day which may be too much for trout over winter. Larger volumes of water and contact with the ground will help to reduce temperature daily temperature swings. You will want a pump that can turnover your FT volume once per hour allowing for head height and frictional losses in your plumbing.

I don't have a greenhouse in southern Victoria - I just grow vegies that suit the seasons. I toss over a sheet if its going to be frosty. A little bit of light shade in summer is probably more useful to keep salad geens from scorching in the blazing sun.

Well that's my 2 bobs worth. I am sure others will have many other worthy suggestions.

Start something and have fun with it. Its inevitable that you will want to change it or add to it down the track if the AP bug bites.

thanks joc.

>> any issues with protecting the base of the IBC, i.e. do they perish quicker buried? i take it too that if you want to empty/clean them you'd then be restricted to syphon/vacuum.

>>These could be in a greenhouse/shadehouse if you want to extend growing season, but do you really need that in Sydney?

I have free range ducks/chickens, possums and sugar gliders and a variety of wild birdlife so the main reason is to keep it contained (third season on this property, and tired of battling with fencing and the like:). i figure i can always open the windows... + i'm at 270m altitude so it does get colder than it does near the coast.

regarding the full IBC for FTs, aside from the additional water height (I did read somewhere fish prefer 750L+) what other advantages are there (and no lid required obviously)? the IBCs i collected need a _good_ clean, and i can't get in there very well without cutting them. btw i already cut one... so have jumped the gun a little maybe. Still have not figured out how to clean the STs yet when they're not cut. i don't have a lot of water (pumping/filtering bore water and collecting rain water) so reluctant to just fill them up to dump the water unless there's some magic solution i can add that will 'dissolve' all the algae already in there without too much extra effort/water to finish them off.

since i did already cut one (as per IBC of AP) i found the GB quite a lot lower (~20cm) than (another contentious issue of) 30cm+. i'm going to use it, but wouldn't mind a suggestion as to the best media to use in this shallow bed (and best plants).

i found this design for the SLO: http://community.theaquaponicsource.com ... 707&page=2

looks ok, so probably going to go with that unless someone's had some bad experience with it.

and i found this about removal of solids: http://www.microponics.net.au/microponi ... id-wastes/

seems to make sense to me (do have some experience with tropical fish and hydroponics and def. want a low maintenance system). though i see it's a contentious issue so open to opinions. so i was planning to build some sort of settlement tank and figure out how to process that separately and add it back into the system. I saw one guy was using it to grow duckweed and feeding that to his vegetarian fish.

oh, how noisy are these systems? the FTs would be near where i sleep. i don't mind a bit of 'bubbling' noise but she's certainly not going to deal with a spa pool too well!

My FT is set ~200 mm in the ground. I took the forklift base off the cage, lined the hole with some old shadesail and sat the cage and IBC bladder on its thin metal base. I cut most of the top out of the FT IBC so that the curved edges remained to give support. I have since seen someone cut out a smaller panel between the support bars and leave it hinged as a lid - you need enough of an opening to set up your tank and manage your fish. I also put the support bars back on top of the cage to stop it bowing out ith the weight of the water. My ST is 2/3 IBC buried~400mm with the 1/3IBC GB sitting on top using the IBC base and cut cage as support. I also screwed boards to the cage where its buried to stop the soil from collapsing the bladder. The ST bladder is sitting on the shadesail lining the hole. As far as I know the IBC doesnt perish or breakdown in soil, its UV that kills them.

The SLO should remove the fish waste. You need a net over the FT to keep out leaves and birds and keep in the fish, and a lid or shade cloth to keep out the sun to reduce algal growth. You need to cover the walls and top of your IBCs to prevent algae. Regardless, you will get biofilm on your surfaces which is what you want growing on your media. If I get a build up of waste in the corners I scoop it out with a net. I wouldn't plan to empty the system, but if required I would pump it out.

Mine is just outside my bedroom window. The pump is quiet and I only hear trickling water and sploshing fish - sounds like a mountain stream to me. But I dont have filters or air pumps, and chose a quiet pump, and break up the water flow from the siphon over a chunk of limestone in the ST.

so now you have me thinking about structural issues. i do note the 3/4 IBC in a cage without a floor like i've cut it seems like it could be flimsy when filled (i will make use of the extra support bars i have). i've decided where to put the FTs, digging too deep isn't a good option in this location and i'm not sure how the metal cage will go (and for how long) direct into the dirt (one i have is already rusting at the base where it was sitting on the ground). wondering if i should lay some concrete pavers underneath and ensure the water drains away via an ag line around the perimeter of the hole.

curious as to why you put yours back on the metal base? i do have trees around so i can see a point in keeping roots out, but i'd have thought it would rust pretty quick? maybe your location is drier (my soil is sandy loam, and since on a slope there's plenty of water draining past the location).

Seemed like a good idea at the time. Its shaped to the bottom of the IBC and is designed to support a full IBC out in the weather. Its gal, but even if it rusts it wont hurt anything, and it got rid of a piece of junk that would have gone to the tip

>> Seemed like a good idea
makes enough sense...

I ended up grabbing another 6 IBCs, they were reasonably priced and very local - though they need a clean as they have some sort of grease residue (edible, smells a little like shampoo or similar base). These are sitting on plastic pallets.

seems that for me a good idea is to increase the size of the ST. i'm planning to get the system 'running' without any fish or plants (or media) to get the plumbing right, test the pumps i have to hand, etc., and so i figure that's going to need more water than what would be required with the media in place. i also figure that i might want to drain the entire system periodically (at least a FT or two) and want to avoid having to dump the water.

any reason not to have a large(r) ST (4xIBC) ? not sure how to plumb it best, would prefer all 4 to be aerating from the GB drainage dropping into them, but also wondering if putting them in series instead would give me a settling tank of sorts and then just take the water from the last one (though i would have all 4 tapped independently for flexibility). it's also likely these will be added gradually (i get bored cleaning them) so factoring that into the assembly.

have excavated out the first ST, they'll pretty much be in a line partly buried and one day might have outdoor GBs over the top. pic below, my idea was to have the STs below ground level so that any plumbing in the grow room can lie along the floor.