Wow, thats a big tank....
Can;t wait to see how you catch them...
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| Introduction from Muckenburra http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12550 |
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| Author: | PLJ [ May 1st, '12, 16:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Introduction from Muckenburra |
Greetings, BYAP forum subscribers from around the world! My name is Peter and I have become very keen on the whole aquaponics concept in just the last few weeks, after having been aware of it and quite interested for a few years now. What suddenly took me past the tipping point? A colleague offered to pick me up some fry/fingerlings at the same time that he picked up his own order so, not being able to decline, I suddenly had to get organised to receive them. I went for 100 rainbow trout and 50 silver perch, most of which are very happily (I hope) swimming around together in a 7.3m diameter and 2.2m deep concrete rainwater tank that I have. Come to think of it, I haven't laid eyes on any silver perch since I released them but reckon they are probably hanging around at a lower level of the tank. Technically, I suppose I have an aquaculture system at the moment but I have already sourced some IBCs, have several 205litre blue plastic drums that aren't currently being gainfully employed and am now at the stage of working out how I might put it all together aquaponically. I suspect that my yet to be devised aquaponics system may have to be maintained separately to my big tank since the tank has a volume of 85 000 - 90 000litres, although presently only filled to 50 000litre mark. I am hoping to hear some suggestions re this matter. I also have a 128 sq m rectangular concrete pond that drains at one very slightly lower end. I had a crazy thought the other day concerning putting some growing medium in it (I reckon it would need around 45 cubic m - gulp!) for use as a humungous grow bed connected to my fish tank. It was then that I realised that I had better put this intro on here so that someone could slap some sense into me and suggest how I might crawl before I foolishly try to sprint. I have been amazed at the information available on this forum and awed by the willingness of contributors to share details of their AP learning experience, stuff-ups and all. I look forward to sharing mine. Regards to all, Peter |
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| Author: | 4xjbh [ May 1st, '12, 18:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
All of that water does sound great but I suggest you pull your finger out and get the GB's up and running as soon as you can, especially if there is not way to convert the ammonia and nitrites. Despite all that water you may get a nasty surprise. Not knowing how long it will take you to get your GB on-line and the design I see you have some 200ltr barrels you might consider whipping up a bio-filter to get the ball rolling. Heaps of air and bioballs would be a good. Its great to have you with us everyone is welcome. I hope your enthusiasm doesn't cost the lives of your fish. |
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| Author: | earthbound [ May 1st, '12, 19:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Wow, thats a big tank.... Can;t wait to see how you catch them...
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| Author: | mantis [ May 1st, '12, 19:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
I would get some floating water plants in there for a start, then work on some growbeds. Just the surface area of the concrete tank would get a lot of bacteria working I reckon. Fishing rod to catch them in there is a no brainer, and fun too 
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| Author: | nat [ May 1st, '12, 20:47 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
thats a big tank can we see some photos can i suggest two or even three systems one or two for trout and one for the silvers i think you will find multiple systems easer and more reliable then one. the same goes for grow beds, beds around 500l seem to work well, for the silvers youll need at least a 1000l of GB volume and for the trout you will need at least 2000l of GB volume IBCs and barrels can work well as beds (some times they can cost a bit more in work and fittings then the larger beds) but you will need some tanks for the fish i think the easiest way is if you get 3 2000l tanks and do three systems with 50 fish and around 1000/1500l of GB on each make the beds higher than the fish tank pump up to the beds and drain strait back to the fish tank good luck and dont forget photos |
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| Author: | Charlie [ May 1st, '12, 20:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Hi PJL and welcome to the forum  That is one mighty big FT. Hopefully you have some filtration on the go already as then it would be considered aquaculture as you say otherwise it is called "fish waiting to die" The silvers chance of survival in with those trout is very minimal, even if they are about the same size now, they wont be for long and then chomp....goodbye SP. Good luck mate......your going to need it. |
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| Author: | DunderOZ [ May 1st, '12, 21:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Welcome to the forum Peter Sorry for the negative reports but... You have placed two very different species of fish together, in a tank so big that you cant even see them!? The SPs will die. They will not get the food. If you feed the rainbows so much that they leave food uneaten, there will be too much bio-load in your system. Even placing rainbow and brown trout together is a bad move. Species should not be mixed, unless you can monitor exactly what they are eating. The concrete will keep the PH high - always. It sounds like you have no filtration!? Do you have aeration? Was the water tank cycled? You need to place a heap (a big heap) of water plants in your system. This will add beneficial bacteria and will help in the removal of nitrates (if you decide to try to keep the fish). You need to have good aeration, as the plants will take up oxygen during the night. When the SPs die, your ammonia levels will skyrocket. You will need to remove them ASAP. Sounds like you are in a place that has a dam nearby?? Place the fish in that dam.  Good luck and looking forwards to hearing about your progress. |
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| Author: | PLJ [ May 2nd, '12, 13:54 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
I feel like I have copped both barrels at close range after picking up on the tone of some of the comments received. 4xbjh, I will look into setting up an external filtration system using a 205l drum and try to get one going before my fish get too much bigger, but with 500litres of water per 8cm trout and 42 sq m of surface area for gas exchange, I don't expect to get a nasty surprise any time soon. Thanks for your concern re the lives of my fish. Earthbound, it is a big tank. It has been used previously by my family for swimming, occasionally, and once for breeding goldfish, but otherwise it has lain idle since I've owned it. A previous owner used it for his household water requirement and another for gravity-fed drip irrigation. As far as catching the fish is concerned, it is a challenge that I relish, but I do have a plan! Manis, you are onto me already: my fish catching plan involves kids and grand kids armed with fishing rods some time late in the year before the water temperature approaches trout-unfriendly levels. I thought that some plant life would be useful and am glad that you agree. I threw in a couple of handfuls of azolla two weeks back and already it has spread to cover close to 2 sq m of surface area. If it keeps expanding at this rate then my plan is to scoop out the excess, as necessary, and feed it to my poultry, or alternatively use it as plant food/soil improver. Are there better uses for Azolla? Nat, I attempted to upload some photos but they were rejected due to being too large. I will have to get back on to that and have another go. I think your suggestion of multiple smaller systems is a good one as it also provides for some redundancy if one system goes wrong. Also, the idea of constructing and installing in stages appeals to me, along with the probability of making fewer mistakes each time. Thanks for your concept. Charlie, it seems that I have made a mistake by putting silver perch in with trout. Thanks for so kindly and gently pointing out my AP newbie error. DunderOz, perhaps I should just go down to the back paddock and open my veins right now, since it is inevitable that my plans will go pear-shaped! I have erred re mixing trout and silver perch - guilty as charged. I am not particularly concerned by not being able to see my fish, although it bothers me that my silver perch may have been devoured and I don't know. My FT water is tea coloured due to the presence of tannins, etc so I can't actually see my trout even as they demolish food at the surface. The other night I set up a bug zapper and watched with great excitement as the little buggers scoffed moths that fell to the water (I presume it was the trout, since I could only see the moths disappearing amid great swirls). I wonder if I will soon hear that my fish will contract cancer caused by carcinogens in the barbecued bugs! My concrete tank is well and truly seasoned but I will keep an eye on the pH of the water - thanks for the tip. I was unaware that concrete continued to affect the alkalinity of any water contained so many years after its initial curing. Finally, why would I not 'decide to try to keep the fish' when keeping fish is largely what this is about for me? I don't understand your question. Fortunately, I released some of my silver perch into another pond that I have, in fact where I was originally planning to put them all until at the last moment I decided to put 30 or so in with the trout. I understand now that these silver perch are sure to be, if not already, dead from being eaten, excessive ammonia and nitrites, lack of filtration generally, lack of aeration, starvation, too much food and high pH. Thank you all for your wishes of luck. |
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| Author: | Marc d W [ May 2nd, '12, 14:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Hi PLJ welcome to the forum . I often thought of using my concrete tanks for the fish but the thought of all those grow beds and gravel washing and well fun made me think of leaving work and taking up full time Aquaponics. I know of at least one person up my way that successfully kept trout in their concrete RW tank without specialised filtration, other than an ornamental stream bed.  Anyhow the pH of the water in my concrete tanks is around 8 to 9 and I have had water in them for nearly 30 years. The water going in has a low pH on account of all the tannins yet still the Ph of the tank water is high. looking forward to seeing how it all goes. Maybe one day I will convert one of mine  Cheers Marc |
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| Author: | PLJ [ May 2nd, '12, 23:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Thanks for your welcome, Marc. I know what you mean about the scale of work that would be required and that is why, failing any great ideas about how I can use my big tank in an aquaponically practical way, I will keep it mostly separate and plan on building a smaller AP system to get me started. I am interested to hear that someone up in the Perth hills has previously grown trout successfully in their concrete RW tank. I wonder if they took steps to lower the pH in their tank since evidence is mounting re the residual pH effect of even old concrete on water contained therein? I meant to mention in my earlier response to comments that I plan to regularly syphon a proportion of water from my tank and run it onto established plants and then pump fresh water in to replace it. This may seem wasteful but it isn't, really, since I irrigate thousands of plants each day anyway. I have reduced the run time for the relevant station and now complement the irrigation of some lucky plants with regular fertigation from my FT. I am hoping that this will go some way, as an interim measure, in lowering pH and reducing toxin build up in the FT, whilst at the same time making use of nutrient rich 'fish' water. What is the target pH for trout, anyway - around 7? I hope you will be able to benefit from the resolution of any issues that I come across while attempting trout culture in a concrete rainwater tank. Cheers, Peter |
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| Author: | PLJ [ May 3rd, '12, 00:27 ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra | ||
This is what my tank looked like when first covered with bird netting.
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| Author: | faye [ May 3rd, '12, 10:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Hi PLJ and welcome to the forum Jaymie and Axl started with a very large concrete tank and their stroy is detailed here http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... f=18&t=412
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| Author: | DunderOZ [ May 3rd, '12, 12:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
DunderOZ wrote: The concrete will keep the PH high - always. No one has said that its the trout that will have problems, with the PH staying above 7. Its the plants you try to grow, that may have the problem, due to what is called - PH Lockout. One of the ways to confirm that the problem has occurred, is when you notice that the leaves are yellow or have yellow variegations. This is due to the iron being locked out. The chart bellow may be of help to you. Different plants will have different Lockout points. 
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| Author: | PLJ [ May 3rd, '12, 14:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Thank you for your welcome, Faye. Thanks, also, for directing me to Jaymie's fascinating story. I can see that it would be easy to lose oneself for hours every day exploring other people's AP journeys. I just trawled through a few pages of your system thread and I am stunned by the beauty and clarity of the photos I saw. Wow! I will have to go back again to check out your AP setup since I was too distracted on my 1st visit to even look at that. PLJ |
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| Author: | PLJ [ May 3rd, '12, 14:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Introduction from Muckenburra |
Thanks for the clarification re the importance of pH, DunderOZ, ie more for the plants than the fish. That chart will prove a useful reference, I'm sure, and has been saved where I will easily find it when needed. As an aside, I went to the general store in my local town today to see if they had a decent pH kit, since I have somehow misplaced my old one. I found quite an elaborate one that I expected would be a bit too pricey, but when I inquired re price I was told it was free since it was past its use by date! Do you happen to have any idea to what extents the results could be relied on? I ask because I imagine lots of people continue to regularly use their test kits past their respective use by dates and may well notice if the readings start to go out of normal ranges. Ironically, this out-of-date kit is of more recent manufacture than my missing one! |
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