Backyard Aquaponics
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Hello, I'm Toon
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12522		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Da_Tonio [ Apr 28th, '12, 00:25 ]
Post subject:  Hello, I'm Toon
and I'm from Belguim, this small country located in Europe. Ive been browing this forum for a while now and found a lot of useful information. (Nice activity on the forum btw, respect! )

As I am about to start a few projects in the near future, along with some other people, I have to get all the information combined into one working package, and that is where I got stuck. :oops:

You see, there is information on ph levels, how to maintain it, what fished need what levels and what temperatures, so the fish should survive. Information that I didn't found was the complete cycling of the water for example. I'm sure there are more things to care about then just the ph level, and it would be useful to know what plants need what nutrients, which fishes produce what 'waste', which bacteria change that 'waste' into which nutrients, etc etc...

The main example of fish are trout and talapia, but do they produce the right waste for all plants, or does that depends on the bacteria?



As we are about to try out different cycles, to test and compare different conditions, plants, fish, etc it would be quite handy to get some help in making sure they are flawless, especially when we would try to combine the systems. (Waste from 1 type of fish might be handled different by using two tanks with different bacteria, making nutrients for 2 different plants from the same water)
We are new to this, but we have to start the project soon enough as one of us will travel to another country to start up a project there.



Ok, so the practical aspects...

- Can anyone help me finding the detailed information on working systems? (People have the intention to forget to mention how many fish there are in the tank, f.e)

- What average surface does it take to feed X number of persons year-around? And what is the ratio here? (f.e: if 1m² feeds 1 person, do you have to double the surface to feed double the amount of people?)

- Is anyone able to help me in setting up theoretical systems? (Full detail, very complete, we are presenting them to an engineer and founders)

- Tons of these questions, but I'll start with this...


IMPORTANT NOTE !
I know it is somewhat rude to enter a forum and shout for help right away, but I have been looking trough many websites, tutorials, fora, etc and this one seems the better one.

Let it be clear that I do not ask people to do my job, but to assist me and to make sure I do it properly. When someone can link me to the perfect ph levels for each fish, I am able to use the information linked to. Anything regarding fishwater ph levels could be done by myself afterwards.

If one can link me to an entirely worked out cycle, I can figure out myself what plants or fish could work in the same system, if I have the right info. I don't ask people to find out those things for me, but to guide me a bit.

I'm not a rude person at all, but just a respectful yet in a hurry human being.
Thanks in advance and above all...
Peace !
Author:  hickertyrd [ Apr 28th, '12, 17:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
hi Toon I cant help you with any technical information, but it sounds like you already know the basics so just get in there and get your hands dirty. I am new to the forum and I've been into aquaponics for only a year but I'm glad I stopped procrastinating and just got stuck into it. It has been very rewarding.
Start small and work your way up. Be patient and be prepared to make mistakes.
Chill and greetings from Australia
Author:  Da_Tonio [ Apr 28th, '12, 19:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
If I just get in there and get my hands dirty right away, I predict a lot of death fish and plants... :p
We don't postpone at all and we do have a hands-on mentality, but we also are on extremely low budget so it is wise to eliminate errors (and thereby costs) in advance.

I'm going for the trial and error approach you suggest with permaculture's sheet mulching and wild fruits and herbs. That didn't cost a single cent yet as the garden and seed/plant-trading provide all the needs.

Thanks for the advice that is true in most cases, but we cannot take that risk I'm afraid.
Author:  rsevs3 [ Apr 28th, '12, 20:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
Hi Toon and welcome. :wave:

Things to be looking at closely with your water are temperature, Ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, oxygen levels.

There are only really 2 types of bacteria we are focused on that i can see. Firstly, Nitrosomonas which converts Ammonia into Nitrites and then converted into Nitrates by Nitrospira (sp?) bacteria. Other micro nutrients are far more dependent on the feed that you are using rather than the fish species. You can also use worms in your grow bed to further break down the fish poop into usable nutrients for the plants. If you are finding deficiencies in your plants you can always use a bit of seasol to help them out.

When you are first cycling your system you can do a fishless cycle. Search the forum on it, but you are basically adding ammonia instead of your fish doing it for you. People often use charlie carp or just pee in the tank.

For more detailed info on systems read the IBC of Aquaponics. You can also read the members system section of the forum. This will give you a huge advantage by seeing the mistakes people have made in the past.

To aid in designing your first system check out Google Sketchup. This is most common tool around here for drawing your system. Other than a pen of course :P

I am sure one of the more experience guys will let you know if i said anything in error :)
Author:  earthbound [ Apr 29th, '12, 08:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
The only way to know all the things you're asking is to spend time researching. You need to understand what you want first before you can even start asking the right questions and getting the right answers..

Analogy.. It's a bit like asking for a vehicle, you are asking for complete details about a vehicle, how to build it and operate it.. I might explain that I think you need a fiat bambino and give you details on how to build that, someone else might might give you details about a mack truck or a giant mining dump truck or a bus, or a bugatti veyron.. They are all vehicles but they perform very different tasks have different applications and run on different fuels.

Research, research, research, by the time you work out exactly what sort of "vehicle" you want, you will have answered half the questions. :)
Author:  JORGY [ Apr 29th, '12, 08:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
+1 , I read for 6 months before i joined. You really need to put in the hard yards to get a full understanding of AP's ups and downs.
Author:  keith [ Apr 29th, '12, 11:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
the easiest way to go cheap is to go in with a good basic understanding of ratios and cycling
Author:  Charlie [ Apr 29th, '12, 13:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
agreed....I too researched a lot, read magazines and wathed video's before attempting anything
Author:  Da_Tonio [ Apr 29th, '12, 18:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
Thanks for the input to all of you.
Let me clarify that I myself did quite some research myself, tho. As said, I'm not a lazy ass guy who simply tries to lay back and see the work happen. :)

Earthbound, I wouldn't matter if they give me the full info on a 'bugatti' or a 'dump truck' as I can adapt them, yet it would be the best way to make sure we don't forget any detail. People generally don't talk about every single part when talking about their car, or actually any system, and it would be a shame to forget that one tire because no-one mentioned it in the tons of pages and the hours of video I have been searching trough. I hope this clarifies the purpose of this topic.


But folks, you all said you found enough information to get a system up and running? If so, is it please possible to help me filtering the overload of information? I have to make it presentable and would end up with 100's if not 1000's of pages of useful information. I simply have not been given the time required to do this myself, no matter how hard I try, so I came here to find experienced folks who could aid me.

With all do respect, but I hope to get more direct answers than 'google it buddy, we had to do that ourselves too' because I did that, I'm doing that in between every message I type here. For example, the very nice basic explanation from RSEVS3 didn't contain info I wasn't aware of. (Still thanks, its a really nice piece of information for the right audience, and it is the gesture that counts.)

Please people, try to understand that it is an opportunity that won't occur soon again, so it would be a shame to see this fail because it has to happen quite fast. If this gets launched we have 4 properties to use, maybe 5. Average properties could contain 5 to 10 ibc systems, at least.
Author:  green troll [ Apr 29th, '12, 19:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
Im pretty sure even the best systems on here boiled down to trial and error.what better way to learn than just get stuck into it.
Research the basics and take it from there.theres lots of ap gurus on here that will help you.

The ibc of aquaponics gave me enough info to start and I went from there.as many others I presume. Also reading other peoples system threads helps most are documented really well and contain lots of good info.look for systems in your neck of the woods and see what they are doing.

Sounds like you know the basics so Maybe start a build thread and draw up some plans and what you plan on using.the more experinced will chime in and help you out.
Hope this helps a little mate.good luck bud and have fun
Cheers

Sent using Tapatalk
Author:  earthbound [ Apr 30th, '12, 14:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
The best thing you can get for nothing, with the most comprehensive information is the IBC manual. But as people have suggested I think you really have to do a little more research first before you will even know what you want.

You talk about pH levels for fish and what temperature ranges different fish can take, you need to check what you can get locally in the way of fish species, you need to know what you can get and what your water temps are. You need to find out what feeds you can get locally for those fish, etc, etc...

The answers are not all together anywhere in the one place for you, as every country has it's own limitations by what you can get locally

Quote:
I'm sure there are more things to care about then just the ph level, and it would be useful to know what plants need what nutrients, which fishes produce what 'waste', which bacteria change that 'waste' into which nutrients, etc etc...

With statements like that, sorry, but you really do just have to do a lot more research, most of that is aquaponics 101, the basics. Download the IBC manual and read it, download the first edition of our magazine and read it, then you will begin to have an understanding of aquaponics.

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/infor ... links.html

Ultimately the BEST thing you can possibly do is find someone locally who has AP experience that can help you with your local conditions, fish species, plants, etc...
Author:  Da_Tonio [ May 8th, '12, 20:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
If it wasn't for my mother, I would have a system built up by now. Its her place, and she didn't want me to place some ugly fishtank on the grass. After a few 'howabouts' I finally managed to present something she likes. Even tho there will be less place for fish then hoped for, it is still more then nothing.

The system as accepted.
Left: Fish
Middle: Water- and swamp plants.
right: Vegetable bed.
Image
Author:  bunson [ May 8th, '12, 21:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
What is the water flow? It looks like everything is at the same level?
Author:  Zubin [ May 8th, '12, 22:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
D_T
Place your fish tank in a way, that the top of the fish tank be a little lower than the bottom of your grow beds. That way, you only need to pump the water from the fish tank to grow beds. Then gravity will help you to get the water back to the fish tank.

Everyone here has done a lot of reading, researching, and asking questions. Most of the people here I believe are over 40 years of age. We got few younger ones, but those who got good answers, are about my age, around 60ish!! (I do not include myself on the group with good answers. I am a green horn as of now.)

So, the only advice I got for you is, look at long range, not short ones. What do you expect to get out of this?
If your goal is to have a good and healthy hoby with some healthy side benefits, then go at it and have fun.

My main gaol in this is to have some good fish for consumption, then if I can get some good greens out of it, that would be icing on the cake.
Author:  Da_Tonio [ May 9th, '12, 00:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Hello, I'm Toon
The main goal was to have fish and vegetables, but now the aesthetics became priority number one. Now, the main goal is to have some fish and some vegetables by using the aquaponics principles, no matter how many, while also creating something that pleases the eye of those who do not care about aquaponics.

The left side is higher than the right one, so the fishtank is the highest point. Not the best place, but that is where I can place the biggest fishtank. I'll have to use two pumps but it will work!

The water flow is unknown, as this is just conceptual. The roots of the bushes will partly decide the volume of the tanks, and only afterwards we'll be able to go mathematical.
If an overflow system from the fishtank to the waterplant/swamp tank works, I'll use that. I'm just worried that the fishpoo and other dirt will stay at the bottom.

This garden is just one of the places where our project reaches, and I see it as a benefit to have to handle this problem, as it will serve as a perfect example in the future. (I was motivated by someone who had his wife's eyes as judges, and he managed to make a lovely looking system.)
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