⚠️ This forum has been restored as a read-only archive so the knowledge shared by the community over many years remains available. New registrations and posting are disabled.

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 19:40 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30th, '12, 06:01
Posts: 351
Gender: Male
Are you human?: plant
Location: UK Somerset
Any fish will suffer above 18c and that is bacause of the water oxigen retansion is greatly deminuished by high temp, this is why I used to have insulation and shade netting, my FT was outside and still suffering, 20c in summer.
Stoking ratio it really depend upon filtration capacity/areation/max water temp/water parameter.
It's a long equation with many variables, you will master after some experience or more study.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
    Advertisement
 
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 19:50 
bioaquafarm wrote:
A bigger pump give you room for expansion and....a high energy bill, plus fish get stressed every time that turn on, just like you live under aheathrow runway!

True enough... if the flow is too great...

And having looked back at the system specs... particularly a 200L fish tank... the 4000L pump is a fair recommendation...

Not sure why you'd need a 2mtr head in a 200L fish tank configuration...


Quote:
do not rely on areation from a diverted water pump, if the pump stop working you end up with carp soup!

Indeed not... a seperate air pump, preferable a rechargeably battery backup air pump... is IMO.. mandatory...

Quote:
8mm pipe is too small to get the job done, I would use not less than 21mm EPDM hose or 21mm PVC waste pipe(cheaper alternative)

Agreed again... anything less will just cause problems...

Quote:
If you achieve a proper filtration then you can have 4/5 carp in your tank.
And that is pushing the limit, I would start with 3 and you can always add more, they are not cannibalising like trout if you introduce more fingerling at any time.

Even with apprpriate filtration... I think the tank size limits the number of fish to about 3.. when plate size... at most...

Personally... I think a 200L fish tank is just really too small... basically.. it's just an aquarium.... and not even a really big one...


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 19:53 
bioaquafarm wrote:
Any fish will suffer above 18c...

That's entirely dependant on the fish species.. and/or location....

Trout might begin to suffer above 18c...

But most Australian native freshwater fish.... are only just starting to wake up.. and feed at 18c... :lol:

And northern species.. like Barramundi... are dying from the cold... at 18c....


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 20:06 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
Thanks for your input, both of you, every reference point is useful! and that's why this forum is such a great resource :D

I've done some back of the envelope calcuations to estimate how long a 500g carp would be, and it seems 35cm is not unreasonable.

Going by the following from wikipedia:
Quote:
1.5 litres of water for each centimetre of fish length (1 gallon per inch).

I should be thinking of about 4 fish maximum per tank, which ties in well with what you're both telling me.

Maybe I need to rethink the whole idea and move the fishtanks out of the greenhouse to give them more space... But the idea was to start small and self contained.

:think:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 20:13 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
As for the temperature, I'm not an expert but I was going by the following (from wikipedia again):
Quote:
temperatures of 3 to 35°C. The ideal temperature is 23 to 30°C, with spawning beginning at 17–18°C; they easily survive winter in a frozen-over pond, as long as some free water remains below the ice. Carp are able to tolerate water with very low oxygen levels, by gulping air at the surface.


I don't know what the temperature inside a greenhouse would get up to in the height of summer in London... It's rare that it gets above 30 outside, but I gather greenhouses are pretty good at raising that!

Time to look into battery backed air pumps!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 20:49 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
For the pump size, remember this pump will be turning over two of these tanks, so a bit over 400L.

But I will look into the Fish Mate pumps as they seem cope better at higher head heights, with lower power ratings to boot! Thanks for the recomendation :)

Perhaps I'm worrying too much about frictional losses in the supply pipes - just make the pipes bigger.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 20:57 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30th, '12, 06:01
Posts: 351
Gender: Male
Are you human?: plant
Location: UK Somerset
Rup I was referring to UK native fish temperature only, my ethical mentality does not allow non native species, and Australian should know something about it non native species (cane toad case)
We had enough problem worldwide with non mative species and predatorial behave to an extend of wiping out local species, again..... human interference= extremely WRONG!!!
BIF what happen to in a car left in sunshine all day? becomes an oven!
think as your GH.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 22:34 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
Thanks BioAqua, I guess you could consider carp to be an invasive species here, it seems it is native to Asia, but it's pretty naturalised here by now!

Thanks for the car example, but my GH will have two automated vents, a third manual one and I plan to leave the door open on hot days, so hopefully nothing like a sealed car in the sun. I plan to monitor the water temperatures and if they do seem to be going too high too often I'll introduce a fan.

It's still a concern though, so if you or anyone have first hand experience of carp in a greenhouse or poly tunnel I'd be grateful for any insight :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 23:02 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
Okay, I don't know exactly how the wood-working will go, but I'm joining up the two smaller tanks as I think that will be kinder on the fish.

It's now a 500L fish tank with about 400L GB (2 x 200L). There's a bit of space to add to that, so I can hopefully take it to at least 500L GB before the fish get large.

That gives me 16 whether I work on 25L GB per fish, or 30L FT per fish. [These figures were taken from another thread].

Now this is still a small tank, and stocking to max capacity seems like a bad idea, so I'll stock with 10 fish (the minimum I can probably get from a supplier anyway). and see how things go from there.

Does this sound better to everyone? Please tell me if I'm missing something, I'm happy to be corrected now instead of finding out the hard-way for myself later! :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 23:22 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30th, '12, 06:01
Posts: 351
Gender: Male
Are you human?: plant
Location: UK Somerset
mirror carp, leather carp, crucian carp.....and more all native to UK do some research.
Actually have a look at this
http://www.wsangling.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=57
or wikypedia


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 23:24 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30th, '12, 06:01
Posts: 351
Gender: Male
Are you human?: plant
Location: UK Somerset
Where are you getting you fingerling from in London? if you really struggle go down to FARM;shop and ask them to sell you some tilapia


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 23:25 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
Yet more data points... This article (which I haven't read all the way through as yet) is comparing the performance of carp at 64kg/m^3 and 32kg/m^3.

Granted they found that the fish grew faster and were more effiecient at converting food to weight at the lower densities, but I'm not suggesting anything close to this.

Stocking with 10 fish as I'm suggesting would be 10kg/m^3 and only that when they've all reached table size. Assuming some reach that size before others (hence, get eaten) it's likley the system will never reach that density.

Would this still be considered intensive (battery, unethical) farming? Or too high a density for a first time system, being less tolerant to my mistakes?

I'm also expecting to lose a few fish as I learn, which should bring the ultimate stocking density down... (but trying to prepare for the possibility they might all survive!).

Still a bit unsure about all this to be honest... :?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 23:38 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
bioaquafarm wrote:
mirror carp, leather carp, crucian carp.....and more all native to UK do some research.

Ahh, I was looking at common carp, I should have been more specific, sorry.

bioaquafarm wrote:
Where are you getting you fingerling from in London? if you really struggle go down to FARM;shop and ask them to sell you some tilapia

I have yet to contact them, but I was hoping these guys might be able to supply me with some. They're not local, but they do specifically say they'll sell fish to people stocking aquaponics systems and I gather fingerlings can be sent by courier?

:getfish:

If you have any suggestions for places to buy small quantities of fingerlings I'd London I'd be grateful.

Sadly I've discounted tilapia as I read they'll die in water below 21°C. Even in a greenhouse I don't think I can keep that temperature up for more than a couple of months a year without heating (a route I don't wish to go down). Thanks for the suggestion though, keep 'em coming :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 1st, '13, 23:54 
Bordering on Legend
Bordering on Legend
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30th, '12, 06:01
Posts: 351
Gender: Male
Are you human?: plant
Location: UK Somerset
Ahh Jimmi, yes I know them, I don't think he will send you 10 fish only, they actually run aquaponic courses too, but interestingly when I've call them they've stated that they do not run a system year round, I'm questioning about his knowledge of AP in winter months (the most crucial time!)
We have a list of supplyer but they do not sell only 10 fish I'm afraid.
just go down to a coarse fishing lake, there are a few of them in the outskirtof london.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mar 2nd, '13, 00:40 
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Feb 27th, '13, 22:53
Posts: 187
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Often
Location: London, UK
The other option is John Wall Fisheries, as recommended by WelshDragon here: viewtopic.php?p=363087#p363087

He specifically says that they can cope with smaller orders, but only by piggy backing on a bigger order:
Quote:
Can you supply small amounts of fish?
If we have the fish in we are happy to send smaller numbers of fish (less than 50). Because of the costs involved in getting the fish out of our ponds it wouldn’t be viable to go specially for 10 or so fish. By placing your order well in advance you stand the best chance of getting your fish when you want.


I will have to try calling the local coarse fishing lakes to see what they can do for me, thanks for the idea :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 8 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Portal by phpBB3 Portal © phpBB Türkiye
[ Time : 0.112s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]