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Fruit Trees to Food Forests
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Author:  BatonRouge Bill [ Apr 3rd, '09, 18:39 ]
Post subject:  Fruit Trees to Food Forests

I've got two suburban lots on a country road just outside of town and I've tried to start a small orchard on halve the side lot. I've got 3 pear trees two apple trees 3 blue berry bushes a fig tree two young pecan trees, a fig tree and a small bruce plum tree. Red apples don't bare this far south the the yellow and green do occaisionally so thats what I have a yellow delisious and a granny smith. Their root systems aren't as strong as the pears both apple trees blew over in storms (the granny smith twice). My soil is poor in the since that it is all clay. Good for building houses on but rough on fruit trees that require good drainage for the roots. I made raised beds after a wet spring killed everything but the pears which by the way are very hardy. Mine get fireblight every year but it doesn't effect the way they bear which is they load up until the branches break. I love the pears. Warm varities of peaches grow good here but not on my ground. 2 miles closer to the river is sandy soil and they grow great there! Anyway around the bases of the trees in the raised beds I grew Strawberries and they did really well.
Just hard to keep the fire ants out. When the soil gets really wet they go for high ground. I keep a nest at the base of every tree. I don't want to use pesticides in the soil so I use bait. I just don't get to it often enough. Anyway I will post a few picks of what I have. I hope you guys/gals will share what you have and your wants and plans. Bill.

Author:  Dufflight [ Apr 3rd, '09, 19:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

I'm planting mexican fern trees to add a little cover and provide mulch. Also moringa, sabar nut, jack fruit, curry, Rose apple, couple of others I can't remember what they are called. Black & buda bamboo.
This site probably won't help cos your in the US but they give you an idea of the different trees that are out there. Just need to google for a US one.
http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/

I'm also looking into a humonia system to generate salivina or duckweed to use as compost and mulch. Everyone seems to like evergreen and wonder why there soil does not hold water. And local nurseries only provide a small selection of plants. Online nurseries now offer a larger variety of plants and seeds. I have dragonfruit growing in the backyard that was ordered online.

Author:  spiritrancho [ Apr 3rd, '09, 20:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

Hi Bill
I find my fruit trees yield much better by draining off some fish water to them particularly while they are budding and leafing. In fact I set up one 150 gal FT with no growbed just to feed trees. From the time they bud untill leaf fall each tree gets 75 gal fish water every 10 days (ten trees) I keep 20 feeder gold fish in that tank and feed twice a day. When my other tanks get to looking green I will skip a day on the tree tank and drain down 100 gal from them to the trees. It only adds a few minutes to my morning chores. Last year had more peaches than ever and had first apple harvest.

Author:  BatonRouge Bill [ Apr 4th, '09, 06:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

I should have looked outside this morning as my poor granny Smith apple tree laying over again. A front came thru yesterday with 55+ mph winds. I guess I'll add a couple more T posts and ropes to it and hope it regrows some roots. :( I also forgot I have 3 citrus trees. A satsuma, a Manderine and a Mayers lemon.

Author:  tamo42 [ Apr 4th, '09, 06:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

Maybe put up some pines or something as a windbreak. :dontknow:

Author:  KudaPucat [ Apr 4th, '09, 09:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

Pines and Eucalypts will grow almost anywhere, but will denude the soil of water over quite an area.

Author:  Dufflight [ Apr 5th, '09, 20:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

3 out of 3 seeds up out of the soil. Mexican fern trees have a better germination percentage than I thought. Not out of the woods yet. I've killed bigger plants before. :mrgreen:

Author:  Cyara [ Apr 5th, '09, 21:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

I really like this Permiculture Food Forest idea too....

I have Pomegranates, lemons, grapefruit, a very tiny avocado, fig, banana... never had fruit yet though so should probably move it.... mulberries... and I count the Moringa in here too... cos of the pods so rich in oil... and gooseberry (really a bush I suppose)

Other fruit is blackberry, youngberry and granadilla. Want to get raspberry.

tamo42 wrote:
Maybe put up some pines or something as a windbreak. :dontknow:

Or Moringa... often used as fences or windbreaks and don't shade too much if just leave to shoot up.

Good idea about using AP water SR....

What I am really interested in is which plants can be grown around and under these trees... permiculture style... but that also produce food or fodder of some sort. Stuff like comfrey....

Author:  highlander [ Apr 5th, '09, 22:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

Dear Chelle,
I bought moringa seeds from a US mail order nursery, but none came up. What hints (and seed sources) can you advise?
thanks
Andrew

Author:  TCLynx [ Apr 5th, '09, 22:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

Moringa seems to germinate well in rich warm compost but if it is too wet they will rot. The last batch I soaked the seeds overnight and then planted them in pots of moist compost. Last year I successfully started moringa seeds in pots of compost set in my nursery grow bed. The seeds that I put in a try of worm castings in the nursery bed stayed too wet and no seeds germinated in that.

Author:  creative1 [ Apr 5th, '09, 22:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

BRB - satsuma is a plum??

Author:  Tony From West Oz [ Apr 5th, '09, 23:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

C1 That is my take on it.

We grew Satsuma plums when I was a child on an orchard 3 km from here.

Tony

Author:  creative1 [ Apr 5th, '09, 23:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

closer to Rolystone maybe??
We have a double grafted satsuma and another,
that shall remain nameless.

Author:  Tony From West Oz [ Apr 5th, '09, 23:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

Bedfordale, just 3 km further from Armadale than we are now.

Author:  Cyara [ Apr 5th, '09, 23:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Fruit Trees to Food Forests

highlander wrote:
Dear Chelle,
I bought moringa seeds from a US mail order nursery, but none came up. What hints (and seed sources) can you advise?
thanks
Andrew

Hi Andrew.

How many did you order? My first batch were only 10.... 6 came up and only 2 finally survived. 4 seemed to have been eaten at the roots or something.... just seemed to wilt before my eyes. Perhaps it is just a numbers game there... as here. I have ended up with about 30 trees in all now after ordering another 100 seeds after the first 10.

Be sure also not to make too wet... just nicely moist as germinating. Usually takes between 5 to 12 days I noticed and then they shoot up fast.

This is the best article I filed on growing Moringa... http://www.moringafarms.com/growing_it.htm . This is his advice on germinating which I will try next time....
Quote:
Germinating Seeds for Personal Use

There are several methods of germinating seeds. Some methods may work better depending on the microclimate. We are sure that there are lots of you that have your own methods of germinating seeds so we will just tell you what we have done and what has worked for us and what has worked for growers around the world.

Moringa seeds have wings and are about the size of a large pea. Seeds don’t need sunlight in order to germinate. Here are some suggestions on germination.

1. Soak the seeds for 24 hours; the seed will imbibe the water it needs to germinate from this procedure. Remove the seeds from the solution.
2. Put the seeds in a plastic sandwich bag and store in a warm, dark place like a drawer or cabinet. Germination times range from 3-14 days. Do not add extra water to the bag.
3. Check them every two days. Once the seeds have broken loose from the winged shell, you will notice two shoots protruding from the seed.
Moringa Seeds
4. Do not let the shoots get too long and thin as they may get fragile and break when handled. One of the shoots will have some ruffled growth at the extremity; this is the shoot that contains the first leaves (cotyledons) and should be the shoot exposed to the sun. Plant the seeds about ¾ inch beneath the soil surface with the ruffled extremity to the sun. Plant the sprouted seed(s) in a commercial band or a peat pot using a high quality potting soil. Sandy loamy soils will work well also. Use a pot that is at least 18 inches deep if this is the final home for the tree. Moringa loves the sun so make sure they get plenty. Although the tree is drought tolerant, they may be watered daily, just don’t allow the roots to get soaked for extended periods of time. If you live in a particularly hot zone, don’t expose the baby plants to all day sun. Keep and eye on them, they will tell you if they are getting distressed from too much sun, water or lack of food.
5. It is a good idea to use pots to get the trees started since you have more control over the care of the tree. Critters will eat the moringa babies if they can. We recommend that you let the potted plants grow at least 8 weeks or longer before transplanting to the ground. When transplanting try not to disturb the root system at all. Like many plants the roots are very vulnerable until they are established in the ground.
6. If using a plastic pot, before transplanting to the ground, use a long thin blade to loosen the soil from the inside edges of the pot. Turn the band or pot upside down to allow the entire plant and soil to slide out of the container. This prevents disturbing the roots. Have a hole already dug and gently place in the hole. If you are planting more than one tree, space the plants 7-10 feet apart for optimum access to the mature tree. The tree will branch out 3-4 feet from the trunk so this spacing will allow you to walk between trees and let the sunlight to do its job. Of course if you want a wind break, just plant them all at 1 foot intervals, like they do in Africa and India. Moringa is like any plant that appreciates plant food and fertilizers and ample supply of water
7. Don’t forget, you can always just put the seeds in the ground or a large pot and water. We have found that Moringa is sensitive to the volume of soil in which it begins its life cycle.
I bought my seeds from this guy here in South Africa...... http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/12329842 ... cinal.html Excellent and prompt service. Not sure of all the implications of ordering trans-continental. I have dropped a note to the Seller to see if this is possible in case you want to try.

Hope this helps. It is worth trying again I believe. I am thrilled with my trees. Going through a first winter soon. Will see how that goes. Chappo said they are mountain trees so hopeful.

Chelle

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