Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I'd like to make a little distinction between the ideas of sustainable and self-sufficient.

Like many people talk about permaculture as if it has to be a "closed system" and completely self-sufficient and sustainable. In general this is never really the case since people still usually have to pay taxes which out count as an outflow and probably require some sort of income outside of the farm like perhaps selling produce to get the money to pay the taxes but selling the produce off the land has now opened the system and now there has been a loss of matter and then the money when paid to the tax collector will be another loss. Something needs to be brought in to replace those losses.

So that is why nothing is truely self sufficient. There will always be some trade for things that are not really reasonable to be produced on site.

As to sustainable, I believe that could be possible but very difficult for modern culture. I will venture that sustainable means that it is a practice that can continue without causing disruption to the environment or systems around it.

I don't know if I can make my modern household ever truely completely sustainable but I try my to use as many sustainable practices as I can. Like conserving water, closing the nutrient cycle by composting (humanure composting which also saves water.) trying to avoid buying things with excessive packaging. Trying to turn other's waste into resources. Trying to be energy efficient, and growing as much of my own food on site as I can so we don't have to rely on fuel to get as much of our food to market and then rely on fuel to get the food home from market.

We but try.

After working ten years and investing tens of thousands of dollars to achieve sustainable living, I aint there yet. With 3500 watts of solar power and 800 watts of wind power I still end up each month with a small power bill from the grid. With chickens, dairy goats, pigs, and meat rabbits fruit orchard and 300sq/ft of raised beds I still have a small grocery bill each month. As I develop AP I hope to grow more veggies and fish to add to my diet. Because my place is only and acre and the limits of my my solar powerd deep well pump, i cant raise enough feed for the critters. Even though I feed critters as much as possible from the garden I still have a feed bill of $200 a month. Again AP should help lower that.....In the raised bed for the pond I have ordered several comfrey plants for food and herb and feed. The wole 3x7 ft. bed will be devoted to it. Chappo suggested miranga trees for fodder. I ordered seed and have 6 starts going. We do save seed and collect rain water. We collect human manure for digester feed and have yet to start that system. We collect veggie oil and make biodiesel to run two vihicles and heat the house/green house. Eventually it will also power a generator. The home we live in was built by my parents and we have recycled it to our needs.

What it boils down to is more like recycling than sustainability. We recycle the sun and wind to power. We recycle animal waste to mulch. We recycle garden waste to feed. We recycled the garage to an AP greenhouse with recycled glass doors for glazing. We recycle fish water to grow veggies. We use recycled containers to hold rain water which is recycled to irrigation. Our raised bed gardens are made from recycled railroad ties and filled with recycled animal poop and spilled hay. None of this would be possible with out my social security and retirement checks and my savings. You might say that I am recycling my life's earnings into this life style.

TV story yesterday about our local heroes, co-housing on an XMas tree farm, solar heating and electric, natural wastewater treatment and water re=use.

Click on the right to see the video:

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.a ... 7&gsa=true

Sustainablility by it's very definition suggests infinite cycling,, everything I know about this universe is finite ( even planet Earth has an end date).So to me sustainability is an unachievable gaol. This doesn't mean we should not try our utmost to reach this target.

Sometimes I find it easier to look at a gaol and then work my way backwards to see how it is best achieved. For me , my ultimate gaol is to leave a world for my children and grand-children that is better than the one I was born into. ( I'm not talking BMW'sand money here).
One part of that gaol would include a cleaner / greener environment.
Working backwards from that gaol I see man-kind needs to change many of our consumer ways,,,reduce waste and care for the environment. As an individual I have little influence on major decisions other than my "vote" once each 4 years, but I can change some of my families usage habits,,reduce consumption,recycle etc. I wasworking on estimating my carbon foot-printso I knew how many trees I needed tp plant,,,,ahhh it's not an easy calculation,,but at least we now have more than 1,000 Moringa trees on our land.

And when it becomes illegal its time to string "them all up." Revolution and war are the resets. The nature of people is not going to change.

Rupe, to bad your not close enough for me to invite you over for a cuppa.

Sustainability is much like peace. Everybody sings its praises but can't achieve it. Perhaps the most we can attain is to be more independent as individuals... More self-reliant and satisfied with life. So when a hurricane hits and/or societal support fails, you can still provide shelter, food and warmth for yourself and loved ones.

Locked and loaded my friend.

Timmy wrote:


Not true Timmy.

When the USSR turned to communism, one of the things that it did was acquire the land for large scale (broad acre) farming. The land had been farmed by families on small scales (1 to 2 acres) and they were able to provide enough food to keep the masses fed.

After these families were 'resettled' and large scale farming commenced, they found that they were not able to create enough food for the population. This resulted in a famine that went for many years.

History has shown that small scale farming can be very effective at providing excellent yield per square meter. The problem is we have lost the techniques to do it. Most of the farmers who used to farm on small acres have passed away.


As for me, sustainable means living within my means. Simple things like allowing one of my lettuce go to seed then harvest the seeds is a sustainable practice. I am not interested in trying to achieve 100% sustainability. IMO, it is impossible in modern society anyway. But I can still act within my means and feel comfortable that I am being sustainable.

Simon

I don't aim to be completely sustainable myself (it's impossible where I currently live) but what I would love is to be in a (mostly) sustainable community with a (mostly) local economy. If I could get my fingerlings from my neighbor, and she ate my tomatoes...

+1 simon

and our city(s) have been built on the best most fertile land surrounding old settlements,
...around rivers, silt plains, near to swamps, and peat bogs etc,
where the growing was best because it was sustainable to the point of excess.
Then we built the market gardeners out... forced the price of land and rates to a point
financially unsustainable for local produce because they were cheap and good quality...
assisted with imports/exports the big MultiNC have a thriving
chain business, moving food around the country/world, storing it, delivering it and selling it.
With food miles attached passing on all the cost to the consumer and reaping the rewards.

With cheap fuel all was good except tripple the cost of fuel for transport
and the produce is the cheapest part.
At farm gate prices that would make you wince in pain if you had to make budget
the stay alive as a farmer!

Our city Perth apparently has 2 weeks of food in storage. or so it was suggested.
...and it would not surprise me...
Our town Margaret River for those who don't know- Is 280k sw of Perth and the western most point of Oz
have trucks delivering all day every day to cater for the populas, I would be amazed if we could go 2 days
without riots and looting

mind you I guess the exports from the region would stop...plenty of wine and olive oil .

If you get sufficiently hungry,,rioters are food.I suggest roasting,with a good coating of margerat River Olive oil and washing then down with an excellent "2003 Ashbrook Estate Cabernet Merlot Cabernet Franc".

On a more serious note,.....,relax,petrol prices are $1.60 per litre not $200. The sky is not yet falling ,, admittedly some cracks are beginning to show,,but it's no time for panic. One of the worlds largest reserves of crude,,Alaska,,has hardlybeen touched.Our Yanky mates bought the whole lot for a few dollars off the Ruskies.Another HUGE reserve is the shale oil in northern NSW /southern Queensland,,,HUGE,,,it won't be cheap to refine but it IS there.

Just when I thought you were starting to get green spots Chappo... You reckon burning all that shale oil is a good idea, or you just bein' your usual self

mylesau,,,If it becomes a choice between the shale oil OR me being able to supply the needs of my children,,,bye, bye shale,,,let's hope it never gets to that point,,,
If my children get hungry,,watch out Whales,dolphins ,,,even Penguins,,,MMMMMMM Myles how much do you weigh????

...just when I thought it was safe to go back into the water...

wheres that button again...

Walking is pretty quick, I mean 5-6 k per hour.

That gets me to the beach in 1hr for fishing/foraging/firewood.

veggies/kangaroo/possum/ quite a resource in a small radius.

I don't see myself starving anytime soon.
Just a lot less travelling

By the time they are drilling in the off limits places in Alaska, I think exporting it wont by on the minds of very many Americans.