Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

Matthew,
It is a common misconception that Diesel built his engine to use vegetable oil. He did not. He was using petroleum oil as fuel, after having been unsuccessful in injecting coal dust as fuel.
He wrote in the Preface to a book on his engines (by another author) that the Otto company demonstrated one of his engines running on vegetable oil at the World Fair in Paris. This was an innovation that was new to Rudolph Diesel.
I have a scan of the Preface.

While most diesel engines will run on veggie oil, the impacts of using it with no modification can prove to be costly.
Injectors which do not spray correctly can cause vegetable oil to be sprayed onto the cylinder walls. This itself is not a problem, but if the oil collects on the top compression ring it can char and jam the compression ring, causing accelerated bore wear.
Injector pump left with vegetable oil in it and allowed to cool can be damaged when the engine is turned over at the next start attempt.

There are other issues to consider also (see earlier post)




Big Mick.
I know of 2 IPs on Land Cruisers which have been damaged, both due to air in the fuel. I know of over 10 Land Cruisers happily running on Veggie oil without any reports of IP damage.


Steve,
Yes, the Iodine Value relates to how much the oil degrades when exposed to oxygen. High IV indicates the oil will polymerise more easily. Johnny7au's Coconut oil experiments were well thought out. Coconut oil has the lowest IV of all of the vegetable oils and thus is the most stable oil for fuel use. See the paper for comparison of the IV of different vegetable oils.

RupertOfOz,
I just walked into a Fish & Chip shop and asked what oil they used and when they told me they used Canola / Sunflower oil blend, I asked if I could try some as a fuel for my diesel. When I found it to be very good, with little high melting point oil (tallow or Hydrogenated Palm oil) present, I discussed taking all of their oil. They wanted 10c per litre, and I am happy to pay that for it.
I also have a Restaurant and a second Fish shop providing me with oil. I get around 300 litres of oil monthly from these sources. Some is high in High Melting Point (HMP) oils and in winter is like grease, but releases around 50% liquid oil when filtered.
I filter the oil through a 5 micron bag filter, without heating the oil (to remove the HMP oils) and then store the filtered oil in 20 or 25 litre polyethylene chemical drums. I pour from these drums into the veggie tanks of my diesel cars.

Matthew & Mokevinb,
While I don't recommend using used lubricating oils as fuel, that is a valid method of re-use which reduces the likelihood of dumping. pollution, etc. It is also more beneficial than burning refined fuels for heating.
I have not studied the atmospheric contaminants produced by burning used lubricating oils in the 'pot burners' frequently used for workshop heating or in vehicle exhaust when using these oils as fuel, but I imagine that the wear metals from the engine could cause some significant heavy metal oxides to be created.

I prefer to see these oils re-refined to allow them to be re-used as lubricating oils again. The oil does not wear out, it gets contaminated and the additives break down. Removing the contaminants and adding new additives seems to be a more responsible alternative. This is not practical in many locations for economies of scale and high transport costs.

I look forward to further discussion on this topic.

I hope to start a thread on Combined Heat & Power (CHP) soon.


Regards,
Tony

Thanks Tony.... about gels with what I'd researched previously on the subject, particularly the reuse of deep frier oils from fish and chip shops...

I'v got some links somewhere that might interest you... if I can find them ...


Presume you know of this forum ...

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/for ... /948102678

and a good thread (with photos) from that forum ....

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ ... 7201094351

that links to here .....

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/phot ... /index.htm

and complete plans for a "100gal" processing system.....

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/processorplans2.php

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/phot ... nplans.pdf


and a link to a thread in the Australian Biodiesel forum about pumps and the "appleseed" system ....

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/sydney_bio ... pumps.html


You've probably seen most of these sites, but I thought it might be good to put all the links in one place....

There is another thread here about bio fuels or at least other posts... I think we need to try and keep it all together in this thread though.

Tony you're s legend. It turns out that YOUR paper was the one i kept referring back to when i got interested in this concept a few months back. TOP work mate.



Is this the "sunola" blend oil? I hope so, i have a potential source for 1000's of litres, and i might even be able to convince them to put it though their centrifuge one last time before handing it over

Ahhh yes, it's all coming together now.... I read about your work a year or two ago Tony when I was researching veggie oil conversions for my hilux. I remebered it quite clearrly because I didn;t realize there was a diesel mazda capela..

I remeber finding out that my 93 hilux could have had either a good or a bad IP for veggie oil, I checked the one in mine and it appears to be the IP that would be suitable for running oil..

One day I'm going to look more seriously at converting..

I have a friend that runs his new patrol exclusively on his home made biodiesel, but it is more than just filtered oil, it has been mixed with caustic soda(i think) then washed with water and left to settle out. he has had no problems and has been running it for the last 50-100'000km. A bloke across from his runs his cruiser on vegggie oil but has a regular diesel tank as well that he switches onto about 5km from his house, to rid the lines of the oil that is too thick to start the engine, after about 5km of travel the oil is thin enough to go straight in and he turns the reg diesel off.

Axl i'm fairly sure the bio-deisel process also requires methanol.............

I'd be much more for a conversion that used SVO even if i needed to warm the car up on standard D or Bio D

There are good reasons for using biodiesel only and other good reasons for using a 2 tank vegetable oil conversion (preferably using biodiesel in the start tank)
Here are a few:

1. Biodiesel may be the best alternative:
   
   • If most of your travel is on short trips where the veggie would not have time to heat up properly before the purge sequence needs to happen. (Cold climates make this time even longer).
   • Where you have many vehicles, the conversion cost may provide a much higher cost than making biodiesel.
   • Where a number of people use the vehicles and are not competent in operating the conversion.
   • Where the vehicles are leased and conversion is prohibited by the owner or where vehicle changeover is frequent.
   • Where the oil available has high proportion of high melting point oils and the conversion of the vehicle did not take this into account. - eg if tallow is available, making it into biodiesel can reduce the melting point from around 40°C to around 15°C. This is a usable summer fuel in most Australian states, but using tallow in a 2 tank conversion would require more comprehensive heating than if Canola or other liquid oils were available.
2. A 2 tank conversion may be the best option where:
   • Journeys of more than 30 minutes make up a high proportion of travel.
   • All drivers are competent in the use of the conversion.
   • Disposal of the biodiesel by-product is difficult or costly (disposal fees).
   • Biodiesel production hazards pose unacceptable risks to family members, or the producer themselves (I fall in this category - I am a chemical incident looking for a place to happen).
3. Blending vegetable oil with petroleum diesel or other petroleum liquids to 'thin' the vegetable oil.
   Using blended vegetable oil may be acceptable:
   • If the vehicle is fitted with a fuel heat exchanger to rapidly heat the blend.
   • The Injector Pump is not one of those which are intolerant of cold vegetable oil.
   Note:
   • The use of the blending liquids can add to the cost of fuel, as much as making biodiesel does.
   • Use of high volatility blending agents where fuel is heated may result in 'vapour lock' due to the blending agent vaporising in the fuel heater.

Post processing of biodiesel:

• Some proponents prefer to 'wash' the biodiesel to remove any remaining soaps, methanol, etc. Washed biodiesel must be dried to remove any remaining water (which can cause IP failure)
• The use of Magnasol or other material to "dry wash" reportedly does NOT remove all of the contaminants it is advertised to remove.
• A recent innovation is methanol removal, which allows any soaps to settle from the biodiesel, such that after 3 weeks settling there is no cloudiness of a water sample shaken with biodiesel. This indicates that all of the soaps have been removed by this technique.

Economics:

• A well designed 2 tank conversion, done at home, would cost around the same as a well designed home built biodiesel processor.
• Methanol costs around the same as Petrol (gasoline for US forum members) and is normally used at 20:100 ratio with the oil.
• Caustic used in the process adds a small amount to the cost of biodiesel.
• Electricity and/or heating fuel costs also add to the biodiesel cost.
• By-product usually is produced at the rate of 20:100 with biodiesel, thus for every 100 litres of biodiesel produced, you need to dispose of 20 litres of by-product.
• Excise is due on every litre of biodiesel produced at the rate of ~38.2 c/l. While there is a grant of 19.1 c/l for producers, this is only available for those who can verify that their product meets Australian Biodiesel Standards).
• If the biodiesel is washed to remove soaps, etc, it is usual for between 50 and 100 litres of water to be used in this process.
• The use of Magnasol adds to the production cost.
• Methanol recovery can be performed on both the biodiesel and the by-product. This can recover a little less than half of the methanol present before the reaction (approx 11:100 ratio of methanol to oil is needed to make biodiesel, the additional methanol is added to "push the reaction to the right", encouraging a higher proportion of biodiesel production in the reaction.) This can be a significant cost saving to producers.

Environmental considerations:

• Methanol is a petroleum product. While it is possible to make methanol by fermentation, most (all?) is currently made from Natural Gas.
• Methanol can contribute up to 20% of the non-renewable greenhouse gases resulting from the use of biodiesel.
• If new oil is used for the process (or directly as fuel), additional greenhouse gas emissions are attributed to the biodiesel by virtue of the use of fuel and fertilisers used in the planting, fertilising, harvesting, transport and extraction of the oil from the seed.
• If used oil is used, these greenhouse gases are accounted for by the first user of the oil.
• Exhaust emissions from biodiesel or vegetable oil fuels are similar.
  • Concentrations of the major carcinogens are lower for biodiesel and vegetable oils than for diesel.
  • Carbon Dioxide content is similar for all fuels on a tonne /mile basis.
  • The only major exhaust gases which show an increase over diesel are the oxides of Nitrogen, which are slightly higher, but which can be optimised by injection timing adjustments to be similar to that of diesel.

I hope this gives an overview of the issues and some reasons for using the different options which are available.

Regards,
Tony

Thanx tony!

i called my "source" for the sunola oil........... apparently one apon a time they used to have to pay for their nearly 750L per day of used oil to be disposed of.

Then for the last few years someone paid them 10c/L if the could come and collect it. Now someone has offered 30C/L

I'm always just that little bit too late!

Tony, how does the engine power / fuel economy compare to standard diesel?

RupertofOz,
Thanks for the links, I had planned to provide some tonight, but your list is comprehensive and is targeted well. Thus I don't need to.

There is one other which I recommend, http://biodieselcommunity.org/


Joel,
I think that you may have been misled on the suitability of IPs on the Hilux. Both the in-line and rotary IPs are good with straight vegetable oil- my Capella had a rotary IP and I cranked it cold on solidified palm oil one week after converting it in September, 2000.
The rotary IPs which are intolerant of cold vegetable oil are the CAV, Delphi, Lucas and possibly some Stanadyne rotary IPs.
Most of the Japanese rotary IPs are licensed copies of Bosch designs.


Regards,
Tony

Steve,
With Tallow, the power is higher (you do need to spend a lot of time on the design to ensure adequate heating of the fuel lines, filter and tank) with the more liquid oils there is up to a 5% power loss. This is not noticeable in normal driving, but could be if heavy loads are being carried (trailer or caravan)

Regards,
Tony
ps, Sunola at $0.30 per litre is better than diesel at $1.30 per litre.

This is very true on the costing, and considering that my total oil usage over a year would be less than 2KL versus the 138KL they dispose of i'm sure that a missing 2KL aint gonna be noticed LOL

What car would you recommend i purchase to convert?

I would prefer a wagon but a ute could work

sorry for all the questions tony, i hope you don't mind!

Are there any issues with storing Used veg oil log term in a sealed IBC?

Interesting to hear that there isn't a difference with the IP's Tony...

Any power loss is noticable in my hilux, but then having a big fibreglass canopy, long range tanks, roof rack, water tanks etc don't help either..

go a turbo D for your next one EB

Steve,
I recommend that you look at the diesels built before 2000. Common Rail or unit injector technologies have not has a lot of miles on veggie yet, but there are some running on veggie oil so if you are game, you could be a trailblazer for others to follow.

Find a vehicle which suits your needs. I personally like the Mercedes 300D from 1977 - 1985. They have a cast iron head which are not warp prone like the alloy heads of other makes and later Mercedes engines. They are not a high performance car and the factory turbocharged engine was not imported by MB Aust. I happen to have one on my bench, waiting for me to fit it to one of our fleet.
The 300D was available in a station wagon (300TD = Touring Diesel - not Turbo Diesel) and they come on the market occasionally.

VW, Peugeot, Citroen, Toyota, Masda, Nissan, Musso all have diesel engined vehicles. The Musso has a licensed copy of a Mercedes 2.5 litre diesel engine. You would need to find the right car for you and then determine whether there are any reasns not to convert it.

Vegetable oil storage time depends on how it is prepared for storage.
To maximise the storage time,

• filter the oil to remove any solids. Solids tend to hold onto water.
• Ensure the oil is dry - water promotes the growth of bacteria which will feed on the oil, causing to to go rancid.
• Fill the containers and seal the container to minimise air ingress (use a CO2 or N2 blanket if possible to exclude O2).
• Store in a cool dry location and exclude light as far as practicable.
• If you want a REALLY long storage time, neutralise the Free Fatty Acids in the oil. - if you start with oil which has low FFA, you may end up with oil which has a moderate FFA content.

I think that that would allow you to store used cooking oil for 12 months.

Saturated oils - solid at room temperatures & having a lower IV, will store longer with less preparation but filtering and drying should still be undertaken as with liquid oils.

Before usage, you should check the oil FFA levels by performing a titration with a 0.1% caustic soda solution (1 gram NaOH per litre of distilled water), using Tumeric spice (Curcurmin) as an indicator. I recommend that oils with a titration value greater than 10 should not be used as fuel due to the possibility of IP corrosion.

FFA content of the oil can be reduced by mixing with the by-product from biodiesel production. (Biodiesel by-product contains glycerin, which removes any water produced when the residual caustic in the by-product turns the FFA into soap. The soap is carried from the oil by the by-product) Titration before and after this treatment can be used to determine the need for further treatments.
A weak solution of caustic soda in water could also be used. These treatments turn the FFA into soap. The soap must be removed and the oil should be dried before use.

Regards,
Tony