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Tomato Problem
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Author:  nparcher24 [ May 27th, '15, 08:46 ]
Post subject:  Tomato Problem
Hello all,

So far I have been a silent observer of this forum. I find that this is an outstanding resource for information! I have been searching for an answer, but I have not been able to find one. My question is simple but the answer may not be.

What is wrong with my San Marzano tomato plant?

I have been adding plenty of chelated iron and maxicrop powder, as well as adding bananas to the pebble beds for potassium. Lately we have been combating a nitrate deficiency due to a mass goldfish die off. My theory is that this is caused by a nitrate deficiency, however I am far from knowledgeable in these matters.

I would appreciate any guidance.

-Nick

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Author:  scotty435 [ May 27th, '15, 15:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
Try adding a combo of Blood and Bone 50g/1000L of grow bed just sprinkled onto the grow beds but not on the plants (every couple of weeks as needed until you get some fish). This is used as a substitute for fish by some here when they don't have enough in their system. Are you seeing any indication that the other plants are having troubles?

While it could be nitrogen the irregular pattern suggests mottling from a virus infection or a combination of deficiencies.
Author:  fishyfarmer [ May 27th, '15, 15:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
whats ur PH?
whats ur Water temp?

why did ur fish die?
Author:  nparcher24 [ May 28th, '15, 05:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
Thanks for the advice. So far I have approximately 10 goldfish left (I started with 50). My PH hovers around 8.0 due to my very basic tap water. I do everything I can regarding filtration and removing chlorine so I don't think it is chlorine killing my fish. The rest of my levels are as follows:
Ammonia - barely even detectable
Nitrite - zero
Nitrate - 5 ppm (due to a decomposing fish I believe)

My theory is that my goldfish are diseased and are dying off because of it. Every day I lose 1 or 2 more. My game plan is to lightly salt the water to kill what bacteria/infection I can (after a 1/3 water change) and buy new goldfish. If they continue to kick the bucket I will replace the water in the system completely and start from scratch.

Does anyone have any better ideas?
Author:  scotty435 [ May 28th, '15, 06:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
Scads more questions but a pic of the system would help as well.

How large are these goldfish?
What are they getting for food?
volume of wetted media in grow beds?
volume of fish tank?
Is there lots of algae in the water?
Is the tank in the sun?
Water temp fluctuation?
Anything else you can think of that might be important - pics really help here because we may see something you don't even think about.

Did the fish die off all at once or a few each day over a period of time? You may want to look at oxygen levels, temperature swings, algae problems

re the plants
With a pH of 8.0 many types of Iron won't be available to the plants in the system. Which one of the chelated irons are you using?

Cheers
Author:  Tonzz [ May 28th, '15, 06:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
Post subject: Tomato Problem

half asleep when I first read this but thought it said Tornado Problem
Author:  nparcher24 [ May 28th, '15, 12:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
So here is the rundown of my system. It is a sanctuary system from endlesfoodsystems.com. I have it set up in a greenhouse in my back yard. I started the system in February and everything went as advertised up until a couple of weeks ago. I cycled without fish for one month, then started with some 2 lb carp from my uncle's pond. They weren't providing enough ammonia to the system so I went and got some goldfish. A couple weeks later I was starting to find some strange fish skeletons in my solids filter and the goldfish weren't coming up to eat anymore.

You guessed it folks, the carp were eating all my goldfish. I returned the carp to my aunt's house and went to petsmart and bought 50 goldfish. That was about 3 weeks ago. About 10 days ago I started seeing goldfish die at a rate of about 3-6 fish per day. I'm pretty sure there are only a couple of goldfish survivors left. I also have a solid colony of mosquito minnows that have reproduced a lot and a couple of plecostomus.

I measured the water levels today and found the following:

-PH: 7.6 - 8.0
-Ammonia: virtually 0
-Nitrite: virtually 0
-Nitrate: 20 PPM
-Temperature: 80

As far as I know I have not had any crazy fluctuations. The tomato leaves started turning yellow approximately the same time the goldfish started dying. A couple of other plants started having issues around the same time as well. Our kale plants, Spinach plants, and Lettuce plants either died or bolted.

To answer some of your questions:
I am feeding the goldfish standard goldfish flakes from petsmart, I'm thinking of switching them to small vegetarian pellets

Approximately 32 cubic feet of grow media in grow beds

275 gal ibc fish tank

There is very little algae in the tank or sump, the plecos do a good job.

The tank is in the sun, but has insulation and a lid.

In the tank there are four air stones and a somewhat large air pump. There are also air stones in the sump and filtration tanks.

I just looked at the iron and it is actually EDDHA iron. It is what came with my system from endlessfoodsystems.

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Author:  scotty435 [ May 28th, '15, 13:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tomato Problem
The goldfish flakes lack the needed amount of nutrients to keep the system going well. I suspect the vegetarian chow will be the same. Most use a commercial fish chow in pellet form that is designed for growth not maintenance. Probably something in the 35 to 38% protein range in this case. Goldfish will need a bit of TLC though because this is high protein for them. Soften the food by soaking in water first. According to Sleepe - "Thing to remember about goldies is they have no real stomach (ie acid producing food breakdown area) and so need extra greens in their diet to make sure they don't get constipation." Sleepe uses a high protein (I think 38%) 3mm commercial pellet soaked for a while to soften. He also feeds duckweed and occasionally gives them frozen baby peas microwaved and then squeezed out of their shells or carrot pulp from a juicer.

Did the people who sold you the system make a recommendation on stocking this system? I wouldn't put more than about 20-25 fish in to begin with, you can supplement for a while to provide enough nutrients if you have to (not saying you couldn't put more in, kind of depends on their size). It doesn't take many fish to give good plant growth.

Is there a screen to prevent the goldfish from being sucked out of the fish tank?

I'm seeing some potassium deficiency symptoms. Growth looks just a tad bit on the leggy side to me even with the light being full sun. Hopefully the Blood and Bone will take care of getting things going.

The Fe EDDHA should be turning your water red when you add it too your system, this actually makes it difficult to do your water chemistry readings. Could be you're spray applying this in which case you can probably avoid the color change in the water :? .

With your pH and temperature both high ammonia becomes toxic with a total ammonia reading of between .31 and 4 (80F is roughly 27C - http://ibcofaquaponics.com/information/tables-and-charts/). My guess is you have had an ammonia spike without knowing it and the fish dying is the aftermath. This especially seems likely because of finding the skeletons in the filter which could have rotted there or elsewhere without your knowing it :dontknow:

Cheers, Hope this helps :thumbright:
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