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Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19405		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  dutchmark [ Nov 3rd, '13, 23:32 ]
Post subject:  Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Hello APers,

Is there anyone who has found a source (in Northern Europe) for Chelate Iron of the type DTPA or EDDHA that would be appropriate for Aquaponics?


Many thanks,

Mark
Author:  mattyoga [ Nov 4th, '13, 09:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Yep:

http://shop.solufeed.co.uk/en/shop/micr ... -dtpa-1kg/
Author:  dutchmark [ Nov 4th, '13, 23:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Thanks Mattyoga. Appreciated.

For anybody else in the Netherlands, I also found a site in Belgium (http://www.borms.eu/en/e-shop/shop/category/view/32) that seems to have all 3 versions of Chelated Iron including EDTA, DTPA and EDDHA.

I ended up purchasing 250g of DTPA and EDDHA to try some experiments in the coming 6 months.

I have read that the DTPA works at pH levels below 7.5. The EDDHA works at very high alkaline levels up to 9 but has a bad side effect of turning the water red.

Has anybody else had this experience with EDDHA?

Thanks,

Mark
Author:  joblow [ Nov 5th, '13, 05:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Hi Mark,

There's a few guys on the forum tried EDDHA and all had the same results. :upset:

I used it for quite a while with great success in plant growth but couldn't see my fish, I tried several partial water changes and it still remained the same colour. The picture shows the colour in the sump but it was much harder too see in the fish tank being enclosed and deeper water.

It wasn't until I changed over fish tanks and did a 90% water change did the water lose it's colour and the remaining 10% still had a red tinge.

I'm now using DTPA that doesn't stain the water anywhere near what the EDDHA did but because of my 7.6 pH I have a nutrient lockout and I now spray on the foliage and the plants are starting too improve.

I use a Aqua One Iron test kit and the EDDHA would read OK but it cannot read the DTPA, it doesn't read even after an hour of the tested water sitting there, even a over dosed sample wont read so I think it might require a different test kit.

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Author:  dutchmark [ Nov 5th, '13, 06:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Wow Joblow. You are freaking me out!

A picture says a thousand words. Are you sure that is not an IBC with 1000 liters of cherry Koolaid?

Thanks for the information on the iron test kit.

BTW: Are you sure you do not have pH higher than 7.6? What color did you get when you ran the test with the High Range pH test?

Thanks again for the graphic message. point taken loud and clear :)
Author:  smatthew [ Nov 5th, '13, 06:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
I use Fe-EDDHA in my system - and the cool aid look works for me ;-). I found that Fe-DTPA degraded too quickly (within 3 days of dosing).

The only problem I'm having with EDDHA is that it interferes with my hanna checker ammonia colorimeter test kit. But my plants are loving it.

Edit: I also keep enough humic acid in my system to keep the water tea-colored so the overall effect isn't so dramatic.
Author:  joblow [ Nov 5th, '13, 06:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Mark I only dosed up a litre of water to test if it would read a high concentrate of DTPA the pH was just taken the sump so it was 7.6 pH

Mark here's a thread on the forum that will show you some of the guy's comments on EDDHA.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17117


Smatthew

I found exactly the same results as you, DTPA disappears very quickly and the plants just love the EDDHA but the fish bump into each other in the dark so I'm now looking after the fish and using DTPA.
Author:  smatthew [ Nov 6th, '13, 05:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Did you actually notice problems with the fish while using EDDHA? My water is pretty dark to begin with.
Author:  dutchmark [ Nov 7th, '13, 00:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
I just got my 11% Fe DTPA I ordered from Belgium.

Just added 4g to 220L fish tank. As I understand it, this should be added once ever 3 weeks. Besides seeing my basil and lettuce turn a bit greener, I am not sure how to check how many ppm of soluble Fe is in the water. It all sounds like a bit of a guessing game to me....
Author:  joblow [ Nov 7th, '13, 05:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
smatthew wrote:
Did you actually notice problems with the fish while using EDDHA? My water is pretty dark to begin with.



No problems at all with the fish except for not being able to see them, the fish didn't mind they thought they were living somewhere in the Red Sea, the plants loved it so as far as working it certainly does the job it's meant too.

I ran with the system like that for quite while but not seeing the fish for a couple of months started to annoy me and I was about to change over fish tanks and though that would be an ideal time to do a 90% water change. The water change did the trick and I was glad too be able to see the fish again.

With my pH at 7.6 the DTPA is locked out and I need to use it as a foliage spray on the leaves to be any benefit, there's a residue of DTPA built up in the sump that is still in the water because the plants can't take it up. The build up doesn't seem too do any harm except cling to and stain the inside of the sump.

I would love to try the EDDHA as a foliage spray but seeing how strong and how little is needed to stain the water I wouldn't be game too use it.



Mark

Even my tap water is pH 7.4 so I have no source of any low pH water to test the DTPA in, my Iron test kit doesn't read the DTPA, maybe it's being locked out by the high pH or DTPA needs a different type of test kit, I don't know.

So at the moment I'm just using it as a foliage spray and the plants are picking up and looking a lot better.
Author:  dasboot [ Nov 18th, '13, 07:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
joblow wrote:
smatthew wrote:
Did you actually notice problems with the fish while using EDDHA? My water is pretty dark to begin with.



No problems at all with the fish except for not being able to see them, the fish didn't mind they thought they were living somewhere in the Red Sea, the plants loved it so as far as working it certainly does the job it's meant too.

I ran with the system like that for quite while but not seeing the fish for a couple of months started to annoy me and I was about to change over fish tanks and though that would be an ideal time to do a 90% water change. The water change did the trick and I was glad too be able to see the fish again.

With my pH at 7.6 the DTPA is locked out and I need to use it as a foliage spray on the leaves to be any benefit, there's a residue of DTPA built up in the sump that is still in the water because the plants can't take it up. The build up doesn't seem too do any harm except cling to and stain the inside of the sump.

I would love to try the EDDHA as a foliage spray but seeing how strong and how little is needed to stain the water I wouldn't be game too use it.



Mark

Even my tap water is pH 7.4 so I have no source of any low pH water to test the DTPA in, my Iron test kit doesn't read the DTPA, maybe it's being locked out by the high pH or DTPA needs a different type of test kit, I don't know.

So at the moment I'm just using it as a foliage spray and the plants are picking up and looking a lot better.



We should start i hate eddha club,i am using it as DTPA seems to be unavailable here,plus i had to buy 5 kilos of the red scourge to get it delivered,the results speak for themselves though. i got throughly peed of with the colour,so when i started doing some work on the system i did a big water change and didn’t redose, i am growing chinese mustard,absolutely delicious,taste similar to horse radish,anyway we cut and grow again on this,it showed iron deficiency quite quickly,so its back to the red scourge.
When the new growth came through,to help things along i Foliar fed it, it looked like a scene from war of the worlds,i mixed as per the instructions on the tub it came in.
Author:  joblow [ Nov 19th, '13, 04:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Dasboot I'm not game to even use it as a foliage spray because once it's in the system it's too hard to remove but the plants just love the stuff.

In your case it's a one hell of a lot water too try and get the colour out of, and using it I noticed it stains everything not just the water and with your concrete tanks it would be hard to get the concrete clear of colour.

The DTPA I'm now using as a regular foliage spray doesn't have the anywhere near the same results as the EDDHA I used in the water and I'm starting to wonder if it's actually doing anything at all.

I've tried Dolomite Lime to make sure the plants weren't lacking Maganesium and that made no difference so it's looking like it is an iron problem and the DTPA just isn't performing as well as it should.

We have had a few weeks of rain and quite cold weather here so maybe that's is what is causing the poor results with the DTPA and I may need to wait a bit longer before giving up on it and just see if the warmer weather makes any difference.
Author:  smatthew [ Nov 19th, '13, 05:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
Yeah DTPA breaks down really quick. Like under an hour in full sun. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14987936)Then the iron precipitates.

If you hate kool-aid water and insist on DTPA, make sure your water is covered as much as possible, and dose the FeDTPA at sunset. That way it doesn't start degrading for 12 hours or so.
Author:  joblow [ Nov 19th, '13, 07:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sources in the Netherlands or UK for Chelate Iron
smatthew wrote:
Yeah DTPA breaks down really quick. Like under an hour in full sun. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14987936)Then the iron precipitates.

If you hate kool-aid water and insist on DTPA, make sure your water is covered as much as possible, and dose the FeDTPA at sunset. That way it doesn't start degrading for 12 hours or so.



Thanks for the advice I'll give it a try, there's virtually no sun hitting either the FT or the sump but I have been dosing the GB's early morning and your idea of sunset makes real sense.
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