Pic of my tools, has been many many years since I have used them.
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bonsai (Medium).jpg [ 72.63 KiB | Viewed 13170 times ] |
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| Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17307 |
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| Author: | Ronmaggi [ Jul 14th, '13, 01:49 ] |
| Post subject: | Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
In the tread Dwarf a fruit Trees in AP, Journeyman mentioned using bonsai techniques to help fruit trees along in an AP environment. I decided to start this thread in an effort to get those with bonsai experience to share techniques. There is more to it than just pruning, so I did a little google research. The thing that surprised me is that not only do bonsai artists prune the branches of a tree, but annually they prune the roots. Usually this is done in spring. The purpose of the pruning is to prevent the trees from becoming root bound. Essentially the goal is to get the maximum nutrient uptake in the minimum space. This all sounds great, but, like many, I have no idea on how to start, what to look for, even what tools are best. So here it is, a call to those with bonsai experience to share, teach, and show how it is done. Spring is right around the corner in the Southern Hemisphere, so those of you in said hemisphere have an opportunity to use the techniques before me, being in the northern hemisphere. Rest assured, in my spring I will be sharing any experiences, good or bad, too! |
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| Author: | Mr Aristaeus [ Jul 14th, '13, 07:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
JapanWoodworker should have the tools I did a few junipers in dirt many years ago, with limited success yanking things out and root pruning should be a helluva lot easier, just don't look for massive fruiting look forward to your reports! |
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| Author: | Sleepe [ Jul 14th, '13, 08:48 ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP | ||
Pic of my tools, has been many many years since I have used them.
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| Author: | Ronmaggi [ Jul 14th, '13, 10:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
When I lived in Alameda I used to go to the Japan Woodworker. It was amazing. Not only were the tools beautifully crafted, they even knew the types of steel used. And I say types because it was usually two or more types forged together. |
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| Author: | Journeyman [ Jul 14th, '13, 10:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
Who's a clever boy then, Ron? I never even thought of asking on here. Sheer genius! Thank you. From the reading I have done the fruiting should be OK. Unlike normal bonsai I wouldn't be looking at 30cm trees, but was thinking of using the techniques to stop growth at a height within my GH. (1.4m to 2.5m depending on how close to centreline) This is a substantial %'age of most fruit tree heights so, in theory, production should be only partially affected. Although I kinda like the idea of offering someone an orange and handing them a bowl full of tiny ones. 
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| Author: | Ronmaggi [ Jul 14th, '13, 12:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
Okay, so I said that I was going to wait until next spring. The thing is that I live in San Diego, and seasons here are more like words that people use to describe what most places go through. Plus, I have a grafted plum peach tree that decided that it wanted to pretend that it is fall. It gave me nothing but shattered hopes, instead of the promised fruit it began to bear before all of its leaves turned brown. One of the tenants I could find on the one website I decided look at was the importance of bare-rooting the trees. I was not fortunate enough to have bought bare-root trees, so when I planted them I just gave the roots a rinse. When I pulled out the tree from my system, the roots were still in the shape of the container I took it out of, with well compacted soil still in the shape of said container. No wonder this tree was struggling. How are the roots going to get oxygen when there is wet tightly packed mud around the nebari, my newly found fancy word or the base of the tree, and most of the feeder roots? So I set in to bare root it. Attachment: image.jpg [ 173.02 KiB | Viewed 12978 times ] Getting it bare-rooted was challenging. At first I thought I should just rinse off the roots. It was not getting very far. A little more research led me to using my hands and chopsticks. Mostly, I used the chopsticks. Then I rinsed the newly loosened soil away. Take your time, and get all of it. I kind of felt like I was looking at a tree's intimate parts when I could see the nebari. It is not a part of a tree you see often. Once it is bare rooted you can look for blackened and slimy roots. Cut them out. Then cut back the larger roots to about 1/3 less than their original size. Apparently you also want to trim the roots going down in bonsai, as they will eventually push the tree out of it's pot. I trimmed the roots that were too long. Attachment: image.jpg [ 162.99 KiB | Viewed 13144 times ] Attachment: image.jpg [ 193.28 KiB | Viewed 13144 times ] |
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| Author: | Gabe [ Jul 14th, '13, 16:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
After reading this i decided to take some pictures of today's root prunning.  For context, i have 5 dwarf fruit trees (golden queen peach) in half barrels since mid 2010. They are on a 20/50 min cyclical timer. They fruit magnificently each year but unfortunately the Mediterranean fruit fly gets most of the produce.  These are double crafted trees and are commonly sold in australia for patio pots. Last winter (i.e winter of 2012), i dug them all up and removed approximately 50% of the roots on most of the trees. I tried to remove all long and dangling roots and leave the smaller feeding roots. Today i again lifted the trees. Here is picture of one before any work was done: Attachment:
File comment: Golden Queen Dwarf Peach 079 (400x600).jpg [ 266.66 KiB | Viewed 13128 times ] Here is the same tree in the wheel barrow. I was very happy with the roots. The tree was not pot bound, there were a large mass of fine roots. The half barrel was also full of worms which indicated good health to me. Attachment:
File comment: In wheelbarrow 083 (400x600).jpg [ 296.22 KiB | Viewed 13128 times ] And a close up of the roots. I decided not to do any root prunning this year on any of my trees. i replanted them as-is. Attachment:
File comment: Close up of roots 082 (600x400).jpg [ 203.96 KiB | Viewed 13128 times ] General note: I have kept Bonsai for 25 years and here is a few tips. PS - like aqauponics there are many views - these have worked for me. - deciduous trees should be root pruned when they have dropped their leaves. - typically i would root prune every 2nd year for vigorous trees - use a small metal rake or fork to untangle the roots before you start cutting - remove no more than 1/3 of the roots. - remove long roots, the aim is to establish a fine roots mass - use old secateurs - you do not need fancy tools for root pruning - do it on a cool day - out of direct sun. - replant the tree in the same position (i.e. same height and facing the same way) Gabe |
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| Author: | Sleepe [ Jul 14th, '13, 18:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
I would agree with Gabe, the other reason for lifting them is to replace part of the soil. Although I have never made a bonsai out of an edible fruit tree, I doubt you would get a reduction in fruit size. I made my own root rake it should have rounded smooth tines, mine had three. Before you wire a tree practice the technique of wiring and have a clear picture in your mind of what a mature tree should look like. Try to think in root that it should balance the upper growth.
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| Author: | ferozaj [ Jul 14th, '13, 23:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
I had bonsai chillis here in normal soil, they did really well... Its a good idea for AP if it works because planting density could remain high. Heres some photos from this website. Great site definitely worth a read, also shows you can produce form bonsais http://www.fatalii.net/growing/index.ph ... Itemid=105  
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| Author: | Ronmaggi [ Jul 14th, '13, 23:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
That is a lovely root ball Gabe! Ferozaj, how old is that pepper plant? Was it grafted to an older tree? |
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| Author: | ferozaj [ Jul 14th, '13, 23:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
they arent mine they are all in that website i linked. I believe he cheats a little, i did the same, you grow a really large chilli and then cut it back, to grow a large chilli to that size trunk may only take a year. I did that then cut them down to nothing then they regrow with that nice trunk. |
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| Author: | Ronmaggi [ Jul 15th, '13, 00:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
Read through the website, that most certainly has a place in AP! Thick durable compact chillies. The surviving chili plant from last year has been a great producer. I am also amazed at how large new chili plants I started from seed have gotten. Most people don't really think of chilies as tree like, but they most certainly can be. |
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| Author: | Mr Aristaeus [ Jul 15th, '13, 08:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
those chili trees are gorgeous! thanx! |
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| Author: | nickywayne [ Jul 15th, '13, 08:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
by doing the bonsai way for fruit trees will this make the fruit small? Or will they be regular size and just fewer than a non baonsai tree |
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| Author: | Mr Aristaeus [ Jul 15th, '13, 08:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bonsai'ing fruit trees in AP |
also Ron yeah the forging of different kinds of steel together is what makes Japanese tools once you've tried them you'll never even look at another...they're that good /I butcher wood for my livelihood/ |
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