Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

It will not make the fruit small. I also believe that it might make the trees produce more fruit. The idea is to get the healthiest tree into the most compact size. If you look at Gabe's trees, I bet they are gorgeous in he summer because there is no extraneous growth above or below. Trees left unpruned generally produce far less fruit. Because we are trying to get the most out of our limited space, we just need to be more aggressive about it. Essentially by growing our trees in a container, we are already practicing bonsai as it literally means "tree in pot." We might as well apply the techniques that have been developed over 500 years to get the most out of it.

Some of you may have noticed that I tend to comment on general banter topics and don't say a lot about AP. Since I'm still pre-AP I think it'd be bad form to pipe up too much without having personal experience.
BUT! Bonsai Chilli plants?
I can do that!


While visiting on the weekend I claimed a little chilli plant that had been dug up by the dogs and replanted once or twice and had fallen over and survived. Black Knight variety I think. Very dark purple fruits turning red when ripe on a dwarf plant.
Dug it up, re potted and gave it an initial trim. So I can at least talk plants now.
Well, plant at least...
Not AP yet, but hell it's a start and it might slow me down some of the less relevant posts I may make here.

Not quite sure if I'll keep it upright or make use of the swept appearance it developed from growing flat on the ground.
I'll take some pics and take a poll eh?
Brace yourself for hearing all about my single interesting plant.
Unless the world's most ridiculous celery plant makes an appearance too...

Not sure if you will get 50 years out of a chilli, 2 or 3 I reckon at best. Worth a crack though

I do some amateur bonsai. IMO, the "bonsai" part is mostly a form of art.

On a more practical side, I also try to train some plants to fit in compact spaces, but I don't consider that to be technically bonsai. For example, I have a potted dwarf lemon tree that I keep at half its regular height, and that way I don't have to keep the grow lights so far above it (and the other plants).

I think the thing to remember is that some plants can withstand heavy pruning, while others cannot. I think these are the types of lessons that can be transferred to AP.

Technically, if someone wanted to get loose with the definition of "bonsai", I think even standard AP/hydroponics tomatoes could be considered bonsais, since they are heavily trained/pruned to stay in small spaces. But I prefer to look at bonsai as a slow art form, in which case those tomato plants wouldn't fit the definition.

Don't forget that one of the main reasons for root-pruning in standard bonsai is because having an under-sized pot is part of the art form. I would guess that we would treasure the massive root structure in AP, instead of trying to make the roots as compact as possible.

Get off your high horse... Bonsai means tree in container. Tomatoes are not trees, they are vines. Yes there is a tremendous amount of art in bonsai. But we are after the practical aspects. Root pruning makes tremendous sense to be as it makes for a more efficient root ball. Massive roots just clog things. Learning how to prune an apically dominant tree to produce strong branches where they need to be is very practical. In the research I have been doing, it takes years of the practical stuff before any of the "art" can begin.

You can bonsai vines too. Many people do that with honeysuckle, jasmine, etc.

It's also notable that pepper plants aren't trees either.

I apologize if I sounded arrogant. I was just trying to contribute. I'm leaving this topic now.

Don't leave Jubilee, I thought you made some good points If we all had the same opinions, this would be a remarkably boring forum

Sorry jubilee, I took your post as being critical of using the techniques of bonsai for Aquaponics. Really my purpose is to get beyond just "do a heavy pruning" and get into the how and why of pruning in ways that make for a healthier contained tree. Those techniques may also translate to other plants. But my intent is to glean the most info out of our members about actual techniques that will help us grow fruit trees in this environment, as my own success with just giving the trees a quick rinse at the roots and stick it in has been mixed.

Sorry I agree with Jubilee, Bonsai is to make the end result aesthetically pleasing it is a form of art.
Espallier for example is a very old form of making fruit trees more productive for the space allowed, it look pretty but it is not bonsai.

Was espalier done in a container?

No?

Then you are correct, it was not bonsai. What we do is in a container. Like it or not, that fits the definition of bonsai. Is it the bonsai that collectors seek? No. But it is still growing a tree in a container. All I am trying to do is take advantage of the techniques to maximize my tree health and production. Espalier techniques look promising too. Though it's forced design does clash with bonsai's nature in miniature aesthetic. Espalier also just looks above ground. Root form is certainly an important part of keeping a tree in a container to prevent root bound conditions.

Not normally although the space for the root system was sometimes restricted ie when the fruit tree was grown against a South facing wall (Northern hemisphere) to take advantage of light and warmth.
If you think about the way grape vines are grown to maximise fruit and minimise unwanted growth (and make them easier to pick it is similar).
Some trees have a naturally fibrous root system others put down tap roots or buttress roots. Root growth normally paced with upper growth ie leaves (sometimes slightly out of sync).
One of the key differences between AP and bonsai is that bonsai requires an open limited amount of soil and this does need replacing. In AP you are delivering nutrients all the time.

All I am interested in is using the techniques, it is not like I am trying to sell bonsai. I am just looking to those who have done it, like yourself, to guide those of us that have not towards the techniques you believe would pertain to AP. Clearly soil changes are not needed. And looking at Gabe's roots, it might not even be necessary to prune the roots very often. But Gabe did trim his roots using bonsai techniques in the beginning, and look at how good those roots look. Much better than the roots that I pulled up. With a rootball that good, your tree is sure to do well.