Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

I'm pretty much for staying with the status quo on this one Deuem. I wouldn't add sugar to my grow beds because of altering the predominant bacteria and I'd limit the salt to just the usual amount for fish stress unless you see a health problem in the fish. The plants do suffer at the higher salt levels and you'll see this when you treat the fish for parasites or diseases. The longer the salt is in the worse most plants will do.

So the bottom line is I'd do it pretty much the way we are doing it but I'd keep an open mind.

I think I'll weigh in on the sugar debate. From what I can see the experts don't even agree on this one so I don't see how we as a group are going to . It's interesting to note that a similar debate about feeding HFCS to honeybees has been going on for some time.

what?!
mind blown!
I've got to try this.


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I wouldn't add sugar at all to an aquaponic system so let's all forget I brought that up.
The best additive I can think of is worm poo brew. I wonder if silkworm castings will do the trick.
and to make the brew you use real brown sugar or molasses. it will quickly get broken down by germs and then they all starve. to be sure you can use uv or intense sunlight.
worms that eat good dirt are the best, they make tons of minerals available to the plants.

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also on the sugar topic, I know hfcs isn't good for me, I just have an extraordinary metabolism. from the time I was a toddler everyone would give me their fat scraps except my grandma on steak or porkchop night. I ate tons of junk food along side tons of fresh fruits and most veggies. Lots of hfcs as well. I was real skinny until the 8 grade, my second year of tackle football. today I'm a lean 175 and couldn't grow a gut if I tried, and I'm pretty lazy. I also did a lot better on my most recent asvab test than I have in the past. And I'm also sure bacteria can utilize hfcs, and after it metabolization minerals are gained and released by the the germs.

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Hmm . I guess I should qualify my sugar comment to say I wouldn't add it straight by itself to my grow beds, I wouldn't hesitate to add something like molasses as part of a compost tea. We are adding sugars and salts all the time in the form on fish food and other additives. Keep in mind though when you're using compost tea or fish food you're also adding nitrogen and the ratio has a lot to do with the type of bacteria that grow. You've also slowed the release process since these are incorporated into bacteria or larger compounds.

Also on the salty celery - it's the chloride ion that's taken up by the plants.

If you are going to quote me try to get it right Yav. The bullshit remark was about the lack of understanding about sugars (and not in the context of dietary concerns).

Ok Sleepe, Noted as a miss quote. Thanks for the update. I think we are seeing and reading a lot of different opinions on whether sugar is acceptable or not, yet we add it in the form of other things such as food and treatments like molasses. The goal of this thread is to figure out if one should make a certain cocktail of items in the water as a base for the AP system. Looking for a water rescipe. A good brew of all things needed when adding water to the system or starting a new bed. If we can add the right stuff it should take less time for all the right nuts to form up and have a better garden. I know this mix should change for different plants at different times so I am looking for a good base. Hopefully all natural. Ok around kids and pets also. In other words I don't wish to have to lock up special things or hide them on tall shelves.

worm poo. the one additive to rule them all.
contains all the germs you need. safe for fish. you'll get sick if you eat it. a small amount is all that's needed, germs will grow and fish waste will do the rest.
chloride ion? will that effect my health?


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also, for AP, I wouldn't even bother brewing worm poo, just toss in a spoonful.

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lol i changed your quote on purpose, but you know that

it looked to me like you were making fun of people for not trusting man made stuff, i think we all should have a fair amount of skepticism about man made foods and "food extracts" which get lumped together and called another food..... if you dont, you run the risk of being one of those people who think aspertame is a better and safe alternative to cane sugar, etc.

processed Sugar, especially hfcs, is bad for our (Human) diet. Do you disagree? Please disagree.

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Wild Bill, Sleepe did say not say the diet sugars, the plant sugars. We are on this thread to figure out the ingredients to make the perfect water for AP base line water. Smarter people then me have been arguing about man made sugars for years money seems to always win. Ok, what about the plants. Take that example of cane. Would the soil around them have a higher concentration of plant sugars? Or would it be normal dirt? Will a plant suck up sugars and use them or kill them? I also like the pre salted celery idea. The only way I know of getting plant sugar into water is to add fruit juice. Apple should do. Maybe even a touch of Apple Cider vinegar. Any thoughts.

Yavimaya, On some forums a deliberate miss quote would get you banned and the quote fixed. I would miss you and lucky they don't do that here. Please write what you think and leave quotes as they are written. This topic is hard enough as it is and as you see we are all over the place with ideas.

For myself I thought that AP should be all natural and I would like to keep it that way for myself. If I can't eat or drink it I don't want to put it in with the fish either. I may be mistaken but I thought that is one of the main reasons we are doing AP. So HFCS is out. It is man made and not found in nature IMO. I can get cane juice here. They roll it on street corners and sell the juice. It is great stuff. Nice and sweet and very natural. Could I use that? Next time I am at the market area I will bring some home. They have so much cane here yet have no idea what rum is. hum........

Cane juice should work quite well, but not as a full spectrum additive. sugar to feed germs and minerals for water

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I am finding on the net that sugar (carbon) should help some seedling grow better if there is a lack of carbon in our system. If there is carbon it will most likely do more damage then good. It would be considered a free molecule the seedling could feed on. I take one step forwards, 2 backwards and a few sideways on this sugar. It is like we would need Scottys biology work on every single different setup. The cheapest thing to do is to just test on plants in their own pot. anything that cant photosynthesis yet. Seedlings or cuttings. So maybe this should be limited to the nursery only. Any plant in a bed is capable of making its own sugar Forget it Cause by adding sugar will inhibit water uptake and stunt growth. So as of now I will keep it out of the plants and try it in the nursery. No big deal if I take out a couple od seeds. I can run a few tests in cups and see what happens. Maybe the extra carbon will help them get a better start. A leg up. (for scotty the cowboy term)

quantity will be the most important factor. I think the higher sugar levels will cause too many germs to grow, and germs need many of the same nutrients that plants need.

But Aquaponics, we just need germs for nitrification. In theory, the only additive to need is quality feed and quality water. I used worm poo as a sort of jump start on nitrification, but those germs are also in fish poo so it's gonna happen either way. The perfect water would be oxygenated ground water or mountain spring water. If you need to use RO water than you can get some pink salt and pick out the reddest pieces and put them somewhere they disolve quickly.

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