Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics

In a continued attempt to understand WHY all my fish dies, virtually overnight, I revisited a publication..

http://www.microponics.net.au/microponics/aquaponics_aquaculture/mythconception-4-removal-of-solid-wastes/
Titled..


I find it hard to link the issue of my fish deaths, but wonder about the validity of the claims..
In my case, the cycle values are virtually ZERO, and air is near boiling into the FTs from air pumps..
So I am still looking for a possible reason that the water seems toxic.. but that is for another time..

I do use a cartridge filter ( CHIFT PIST.) And so water entering the GBs is surely crystal clear, but as the water from the GBs flows to the FTs, there is still a deal of solids and some turbidity that can be occasionally seen.. flushed from the GBs..
I am starting to realise that whilst clay ball media is comfortable and convenient, it is definitely not stable, with fines being released continually, presumably from movement and rubbing during FnD..
I now wonder is the more uncomfortable options, of solid media like granite or quartz, is better.

Clearly, the Misconception Article, is most controversial, considering the generally chosen belief that "solids in the GB is good"

Ultimately, the article supports all solids removal, and I now plan to re-jig my system to stop ANY solids from entering the FTs.. ie .. GBs return to sump and constant pumping of filtered water to the FTs.. ie two water circuits,.. the nutrient/GB circuit and the FT circuit..

My question is... If the article is correct, that a massive percentage of solids, is suspended solids, that even Radial Filters ETC. will not remove, then how valid is the continued belief, that returning ALL solids to the Grow Beds is the practical hub of BYAP..



I also note this comment, and recall a common thread in questions, about how pH is so unstable ...
And this, especially with a chart on nitrogen toxicity Vs Temp and pH, makes one think that sediment and anaerobic zones, might have more significant issues for systems.
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Peter, you might find the science based fact sheets from Dr Wilson Lennard an interesting read. There is a link in my thread about a week ago. I haven't figured out how to cut and paste on this tablet yet...

lol .... Hasn't this subject already been done to death?

Read through all the other posts that person has made on his site, he has an agenda of trying to discredit certain people within AP including myself... Even the epigraph in his book was "thanks to my detractors for giving me the motivation to write this". No doubt this post will be enough to start up another long rant from him.

I'm just going to post this link every time the subject comes up...
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1622

BuiDoi you mention:

"I do use a cartridge filter ( CHIFT PIST.) And so water entering the GBs is surely crystal clear, but as the water from the GBs flows to the FTs, there is still a deal of solids and some turbidity that can be occasionally seen.. flushed from the GBs.."


If you're running CHIFT PIST the water from the GB's should flow to the sump and not the fish tanks.


You say:

"And I now plan to re-jig my system to stop ANY solids from entering the FTs.. ie .. GBs return to sump and constant pumping of filtered water to the FTs.."


Once you re-jig and run a true CHIFT PIST system I think you'll find things will improve.

Uh oh, another solids debate!!

As above, the author of the "Misconceptions" article, references the good Dr.

Cut&Paste ... yes I get into troubles on the tablet.. but generally most start by holding your finger on a word and then expand to cover the desired text and touching a clipboard button..
Paste... I find that if I use a URL or QUOTE button. I immediately type (space.............space) and then when you touch the line of ................ it blocks the lot and you PASTE to the field..

And thanks. EB.. I was oblivious to any agendas and trends.. just curious about the. Facts...

I know that I had tried to remove solids and had been surprised as to how much junk lies in the base of the flooded bed.. something that shows my system was partially flawed and open to improvement ..
..
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Is it like that Charlie..

Perhaps it all boils down to something that I said recently... "most seem to work"..

And EB.. 126 pages.. a little hard to quickly glean any details.. but one thing that it shows.. is that so many systems have worked perfectly, the way they are..

Man it is sooo hard to find SPECIFIC material on BYAP.. It's so buried in the twaddle ..

Is there a way of bookmarking posts..??
..
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This topic has been done to death, but since you seem to preach on about solids removal, and lots of new people will read it...

I think the difference here is between a commercial operation, and a backyard operation.

If I was running either a very large system, or a commercial operation, I'd be running everything through a drum filter (or whatever filter you want), and it'd be then put into a three stage MT tank, and introduced to a seperate plant system where I want to control the levels.

But 99.99% of people on these forums aren't running commercial systems. And the extra effort isn't required, a waste of time in my opinion. Simply because we don't, and shouldn't be trying to match the stocking density that a commercial system would want (for a lot of reasons, but the major being that we aren't fish experts, we don't want to check pH every day, we don't check dissolved oxygen, etc).

Faye's system is linked, because she went for 8 years without needing to clean out her growbeds, so she had several batches of fish, and every bit of those solids went to the beds, where they were well processed, and turned into plant food.

It's not just waste in the solids, they contain micro-macro nutrients that the plants need, if you remove them, you'll need to add these in another form to get good plant growth, and most BYAP'ers aren't going to set up a proper mineralisation tank, it's going to go on a lemon tree out the back, and the plants aren't going to get a complete nutrient profile.

Solids break down over time, it'd not a week long process, and it takes even longer, so if you've got more solids going in than the recommended 1 fish per 25L of media, you'll have more solids going in than the bed can handle and process, too much builds up, you'll get anerobic conditions, denitrification and eventual fish death.

It just depends on what you want from a system, I set up a few filters early on with mine, but I didn't like having to clean them out. I wanted something I can set up, feed the fish, plant plants, and harvest, and I've been at it for two years now, and no ammonia showing up, no pH swings, no fish deaths from solids.

Why do you want to complicate something that doesn't need to be complicated?

Nice answer Colum - good summary of what I got out of Lennard's info.

As a noob to AP somewhere on the steep learning curve, I greatly appreciate the expertise and willingness to share on this forum, and apologise if I stumble into a touchy issue that has previously been done to death. It takes a while to get a handle on the wealth of info and sift out what is important, and even longer to understand the 'politics' of AP .

Hey Peter, while your thread titles attract attention, perhaps they might be a bit too provocative and cause unneccessary grief with the experienced APers whom we depend on for advice

A big thanks to the admins and experinced APers who provide advice. For the benefit of me and my fellow noobs, just keep pointing us to key threads and info

Be happy living the good life and enjoy lots of fish and veg

+ column

maybe just change the title to "excessive solids returned to growbeds is a foolish policy."

Colum Good summary, very informative.

It may have been done to death but I still read dogma on both sides of the discussion without apparently any sensible reasoning behind it.
There is no right or wrong overall; that makes the rather foolish assumption that every system is exactly the same.
I personally don't give a rats ass about 'papers' on AP or RAS; yes I will read them and take out what I want to know, but follow them rigidly,no.

You design a system that optimises your fish health your bacteria health and plant growth.

And now for a bit of controversy

Constant Flood. This has a lot of advantages however (and there is always a dark side), I tend to regard these beds as DWC with media. I think they need mechanical filtration or will go anaerobic in areas (only imho)

You may be right Sleepe but I'm still not entirely convinced yet. As an example, if we had 2 identical systems but one was F&D and one CF I'd say we can agree that the CF will collect and retain more waste than the other, but what happens to the wastes in the F&D? Some would be drawn out with each flush and re-suspended? Then what? Around it goes again? There are plenty of F&D with great water quality so this can't be true. I'm still not entirely sold on CF being an issue long term over other methods.

I'm not touching the above F&D vs CF discussion. Waaaaaay out of my league.