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NO alkalinity?
http://byap.backyardmagazines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14856		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  luckydux [ Jan 9th, '13, 12:02 ]
Post subject:  NO alkalinity?
How goes i fellas' and fellers?? I thought I've posted on this forum before but I can't find any posts from me. I do recall one AP site that got hacked a bit ago so maybe it was here? Anyhow, I've been playing around for almost a year with AP and now I have an issue that I didn't even know existed. After a few days of research I got more questions than I got answers :oops:
I've never kept fish before so my first mission was just to keep the fish alive, which I've done, but barely I'm sure. I don't guess I feed much cause they sure don't grow much. They range from about 2-5 inches...keep in mind I've had these since last spring so this could have some meaning to my issue..I doubt it but??

I have/had around 40 bluegill in an IBC in a temperature controlled shed and as hardy as they are, they have slowly started dying over the last 5 weeks. I now know I should of done something sooner because today I pulled out 4 and one of those was my only 5". I really wanted to just watch the system parameters and see if it would work itself out but I believe the end is near for these little guys. I was about to get some tilapia but now want to know what exactly is going on before I spend that kind of money.

Here are my #'s as of today

alkalinity- 0
total hardness- 300ish
nitrate- 20ish
nitrite- 0
ammo- 0
temp- 62f
ph- ?? this is another issue.
One test strip reads around 4, but thats as low as the scale goes...a different strip reads around 6 which is as low as it goes...and I just used a new ph meter today and it says 6.1
Wish I would've been using a digital meter this whole time

I never put too much thought into hardness and alkalinity so you can imagine my surprise after researching a bit. My nitrates 4 months ago were about 100 and have slowly been falling, but more drastically in the last 2-3 weeks. I think the lack of topping off regularly through the winter is hurting me. I ordered some calcium carbonate and potassium bicarbonate today and also put about 5lbs worth of crushed coral in a tupperware tub in the tank...it has small holes all throughout.

For the sake of me learning what has happened lets consider that the other fish are going to make it.

Am I going about a solution the right way?
Should I try to use some sort of hydroxide vs a carbonate NOW? If so where can a person get hydroxides?

Sorry its so long but I haven't even mentioned what the veggies look like :blackeye:, so I can make it longer if needed :mrgreen:
Teach me ol wise ones!!
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jan 9th, '13, 12:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
Your crushed coral will raise both your pH and alkalinity... but slowly...

If you're prepared to wait it out... and possibly remove it once your pH gets to where you want it.. no probs...

If you think your pH might be <6... which could be shutting down your bacterial colony... then some "hydrated lime"... (Calcium Hydroxide).. will bring your pH back up.. and give your bacterial colony some carbon to feed on.... a lot more quickly...
Author:  luckydux [ Jan 9th, '13, 13:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
Okay, so I did something right! I'm not certain on the ph but I've got some more strips on the way for confirmation. I would like to believe my ph meter because I've used the exact brand/model for close to 10 years without any issues but this one was new in the box so you just never know.
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Jan 9th, '13, 13:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
I would trust your meter before I trusted the strips... just make sure you recalibrate your pH meter from time to time...
Author:  luckydux [ Jan 10th, '13, 10:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
I posted the wrong levels for my ammo levels. Today it is down around 1 but previously its been around 3-4. I haven't seen nitrites in a long while but my ammo has been around for some time.
Like I said I never paid much attention or tried to resolve my hardness or alkalinity until now...and now that I've been thinking about it, I don't remember ever having any alkalinity and have always had very hard water.

With all that i've read it seems like my nitrifiers would of had a hard time getting established but with my high nitrates in the past I'm not so sure. I had a helk of a spike when it was cycling but they've obviously settled down
Author:  luckydux [ Jan 15th, '13, 11:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
Just wanted to update...I added a little calcium carbonate about 10 days ago and started adding around 5 gallons of new water for the last 3 days. The fish seem to be happier than ever and they've stopped dying :) The digital meter shows my ph going down very slowly which was expected so I'm happy with that.
On one of the testing strip bottles that that i have, it says the ph may read falsely when testing in low alkalinity. So I'm assuming that the meter is not hindered by alkalinity and that my ph is now around 6.2
Author:  Dagmarvelous [ Apr 8th, '13, 09:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
I am very interested in your issue! I, too, am experiencing the same issue. I am in Southern California with very hard water and my system also tests at ZERO Alkalinity. My Ph is continually falling and will settle around 5.0 if I don't watch it.

I'd love to speak further about your issue Luckydux. Can you pm me? Perhaps we can figures it out together? It seems this thread has died and I still have issues.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...
Author:  RupertofOZ [ Apr 8th, '13, 16:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
Add some Calcium Hydroxide.... hydrated lime.... "brickies/builders lime"....
Author:  UpNorth [ Apr 8th, '13, 18:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
Is this the same as carbonate hardness and general hardness I was having trouble with fish dying with my ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite all reading fine.
Once I was shown how to read these 2 measurements and adjusted them up to 60ppm the fish and plants have been powering.
Author:  luckydux [ Jun 15th, '13, 13:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
Dagmarvelous wrote:
I am very interested in your issue! I, too, am experiencing the same issue. I am in Southern California with very hard water and my system also tests at ZERO Alkalinity. My Ph is continually falling and will settle around 5.0 if I don't watch it.

I'd love to speak further about your issue Luckydux. Can you pm me? Perhaps we can figures it out together? It seems this thread has died and I still have issues.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...


Sorry for the delay but I've been very busy and without internet for a bit. I hope you've learned how and more importantly why you should add additives on certain systems at different times. I still haven't found the time myself to completely grasp the science behind it so maybe you could easily explain to me what you learned :mrgreen:
Author:  luckydux [ Jun 15th, '13, 14:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: NO alkalinity?
After re-reading my original post I've decided to make this thread somewhat of a diary about my circumstances during this issue. My memory isn't the greatest and I would surely forget most of my life and daily activities if I never wrote things down. I'm busier than I've ever been in life and I'm not capable of remembering all that goes on daily. I've started breeding a variety of poultry and its a very time demanding hobby that really zaps my will or even strength to do any other hobbies....sigh.. :cry:

As for my alkalinity issue, nothing has really changed since my last update. I just watched the ph and periodically added potassium or calcium carbonate, or sometimes just a basic ph up product when it started going down. No more fish died until a couple weeks ago when I had one die. I was in the process of changing to a new system so that one has been taken offline. So my intro to fish was somewhat disappointing but I still have the will to learn.

I have a new system cycling now that I will open a new thread about soon. It is what one could certainly call a hybrid and I think it will fit my busy life better but also fill my family's needs as well.
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